(December 4, 2013 at 4:08 pm)DOS Wrote: Believer believes in God, salvation, the eternity of the soul etc ete etc and you simply believe in the position that there are no God, santa claus, hobbits...

Post more, good night.

(December 4, 2013 at 4:03 pm)DOS Wrote: Does it change anything? Belief usually is based on something and you believe in null. You believe in the position!!! Faceplam!!!

My point is that "the belief" (or lack of belief) and "the position" are not separate. You earlier asked max if his claim (that he is an atheist) applied to the belief or the position. I'm pointing out that they are related.

(December 3, 2013 at 3:06 am)DOS Wrote: "There was, they say, here on earth a thinker and philosopher. He rejected everything, 'laws, conscience, faith,' and, above all, the future life. He died; he expected to go straight to darkness and death and he found a future life before him. He was astounded and indignant. 'This is against my principles!' he said. And he was punished for that... that is, you must excuse me, I am just repeating what I heard myself, it's only a legend... he was sentenced to walk a quadrillion kilometres in the dark (we've adopted the metric system, you know): and when he has finished that quadrillion, the gates of heaven would be opened to him and he'll be
forgiven-"
"And what tortures have you in the other world besides the quadrillion kilometres?" asked Ivan, with a strange eagerness.
"What tortures? Ah, don't ask. In old days we had all sorts, but now they have taken chiefly to moral punishments- 'the stings of conscience' and all that nonsense. We got that, too, from you, from the softening of your manners. And who's the better for it? Only those who have got no conscience, for how can they be tortured by conscience when they have none? But decent people who have conscience and a sense of honour suffer for it. Reforms, when the ground has not been prepared for them, especially if they are institutions copied from abroad, do nothing but mischief! The ancient fire was better. Well, this man, who was condemned to the quadrillion kilometres, stood still, looked round and lay down across the road. 'I won't go, I refuse on principle!' Take the soul of an enlightened Russian atheist and mix it with the soul of the prophet Jonah, who sulked for three days and nights in the belly of the whale, and you get the character of that thinker who lay across the road."
"What did he lie on there?"
"Well, I suppose there was something to lie on. You are not laughing?"
"Bravo!" cried Ivan, still with the same strange eagerness. Now he was listening with an unexpected curiosity. "Well, is he lying there now?"
"That's the point, that he isn't. He lay there almost a thousand years and then he got up and went on."
"What an ass!" cried Ivan, laughing nervously and still seeming to be pondering something intently. "Does it make any difference whether he lies there for ever or walks the quadrillion kilometres? It would take a billion years to walk it?"
"Much more than that. I haven't got a pencil and paper or I could work it out. But he got there long ago, and that's where the story begins."
"What, he got there? But how did he get the billion years to do it?"
"Why, you keep thinking of our present earth! But our present earth may have been repeated a billion times. Why, it's become extinct, been frozen; cracked, broken to bits, disintegrated into its elements, again 'the water above the firmament,' then again a comet, again a sun, again from the sun it becomes earth- and the same sequence may have been repeated endlessly and exactly the same to every detail, most unseemly and insufferably tedious-"
"Well, well, what happened when he arrived?"
"Why, the moment the gates of Paradise were open and he walked in;
before he had been there two seconds, by his watch (though to my
thinking his watch must have long dissolved into its elements on the way), he cried out that those two seconds were worth walking not a
quadrillion kilometres but a quadrillion of quadrillions, raised to
the quadrillionth power! In fact, he sang 'hosannah'."
The Brothers Karamazov by Fedor Dostoevsky

If the man had to walk a quadrillion kilometers for his crime of disbelief, then how many did god walk for his mass murder and insatiable greed?

(December 4, 2013 at 3:45 pm)DOS Wrote:

(December 4, 2013 at 3:39 pm)max-greece Wrote: I have already told you several times that I am an atheist.

Then which one between the two makes you a non believer? The rejection of belief or the position?

Nice try to reverse the burden of proof.

I have seen nothing to convince me there is any God.

The eternal christian:

You can't prove me wrong, therefore I am right.

I can't prove you wrong, therefore you are wrong.

(December 4, 2013 at 4:08 pm)DOS Wrote: Believer believes in God, salvation, the eternity of the soul etc ete etc and you simply believe in the position that there are no God, santa claus, hobbits...

Post more, good night.

If I had a dollar for every time a Christian came here to tell me what I believe, I'd be richer than a televangelist.

Let's see if we can make this painfully simple for you, as that seems to be the only way you will grasp it. I claim that I am holding six pennies in my hand right now. I am unable to provide you any evidence that this is true, and due to that fact, you reject my claim. Does that mean you automaticallly believe that I do not have six pennies in my hand? There is no evidence to verify either way, so does your rejection of the claim mean that by default you believe the opposite to be true?

I am an atheist because I am not a theist. How is this so difficult?

Honestly, with all this trouble over one simple word, I don't see any way in hell how we're ever going to be able to talk about gods and all that swaddling.

(December 4, 2013 at 9:31 am)tokutter Wrote:

(December 3, 2013 at 4:09 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: Don't take it personally, most of the posters here are repressed children, butthurt about religion, blaming gods, religions and churches for all their problems. Crying and whining all day, all they do is hate and insult people who disagree with them.

It's all a pool of psychological and social dysfunction.

Welcome to the forum. Are you a native Russian speaker or did you have to learn Russian? Did you read any of Dostoyevsky's work in English too?

And your here.....because???????????
.

Because I wanted to read your delightful posts.

(December 4, 2013 at 4:08 pm)DOS Wrote: Believer believes in God, salvation, the eternity of the soul etc ete etc and you simply believe in the position that there are no God, santa claus, hobbits...

Post more, good night.

No, I simply believe in one less god than you do.

At least get your definitions right.

I don't find this new guy DOS's posts at all compelling. He is welcome to his rude, poorly formed sentences .. whatever they may mean to him.

No comment. Bored now.