Wow those were horrible reasons.

(February 12, 2010 at 8:31 pm)Watson Wrote: Wow those were horrible reasons.

Why is that?

It'll take me a while to compil emy thoughts and answer, but believe me, I have a reasoning. I just have to post it correctly or it wont make sense.

(February 12, 2010 at 8:44 pm)Watson Wrote: It'll take me a while to compil emy thoughts and answer, but believe me, I have a reasoning. I just have to post it correctly or it wont make sense.

Take your time.

The atheists impossible stipulation to accept that there is a God:- to provide something which the God notion defies. There's logic for you.

(February 12, 2010 at 9:02 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: The atheists impossible stipulation to accept that there is a God:- to provide something which the God notion defies. There's logic for you.

A verifiable miracle? Didn't Jesus turn water into wine, heal the sick and walk on water? Woops, there I go with a literal interpretation again.

I can see why religion is the force that it is. It asks people to abandon logic, come to a conclusion, and have delusions reinforcing the above claim, sealing the deal.

I can see myself believing in God only when I have sufficient evidence to do so. Until then, I reject any notion of a supreme being because there just isn't anything to observe.

Let me ask you a question, if none of the bible is to be taken literally, does God make miracles happen?

Jesus never said "I am healing the sick when I touch them!" "I am walking on water because I'm God!" "I turned that water into wine!" Jesus merely went to the sick, and happened to be there when they got better. He merely happened to have the ability to walk on water, and people claimed it was because he was God. He merely observed the water and suddenly found that *Gasp!* It's wine! That is how He worked and still works.

God makes everything and things happen because God made them. In effect, everything is a miracle.

(February 12, 2010 at 9:22 pm)Watson Wrote: Jesus never said "I am healing the sick when I touch them!" "I am walking on water because I'm God!" "I turned that water into wine!" Jesus merely went to the sick, and happened to be there when they got better. He merely happened to have the ability to walk on water, and people claimed it was because he was God. He merely observed the water and suddenly found that *Gasp!* It's wine! That is how He worked and still works.

God makes everything and things happen because God made them. In effect, everything is a miracle.

Everything can't be a miracle. It is by definition:

1 : an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs
2 : an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment

You're making the argument that Jesus happened to be there when they got better, which outlines that maybe he couldn't do anything at all and any claims could very well be exaggerations. This is an unbelievably weak argument and I'm surprised you brought it up.

(February 12, 2010 at 9:18 pm)tavarish Wrote: I can see why religion is the force that it is. It asks people to abandon logic, come to a conclusion, and have delusions reinforcing the above claim, sealing the deal.

I can see myself believing in God only when I have sufficient evidence to do so. Until then, I reject any notion of a supreme being because there just isn't anything to observe.

Let me ask you a question, if none of the bible is to be taken literally, does God make miracles happen?

Yes he does.

Your insistence on empirical reasoning is in fact a logical fallacy BTW. if you ask for scientific evidence for God according to the principles of the scientific method, you are commiting the fallacy of question-begging, for God is not within the scope of investigation of the scientific method, according to it's own principles.

(February 12, 2010 at 9:50 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(February 12, 2010 at 9:18 pm)tavarish Wrote: I can see why religion is the force that it is. It asks people to abandon logic, come to a conclusion, and have delusions reinforcing the above claim, sealing the deal.

I can see myself believing in God only when I have sufficient evidence to do so. Until then, I reject any notion of a supreme being because there just isn't anything to observe.

Let me ask you a question, if none of the bible is to be taken literally, does God make miracles happen?

Yes he does.

Your insistence on empirical reasoning is in fact a logical fallacy BTW. if you ask for scientific evidence for God according to the principles of the scientific method, you are commiting the fallacy of question-begging, for God is not within the scope of investigation of the scientific method, according to it's own principles.

By your account, if God can perform miracles, it is manifested in the natural world. Due to this, it can be inferred that in some form, it can be observed. If it can be observed, it can be tested to demonstrate a hypothesis. Anything in the physical world can be subject to scrutiny. Does this make sense?