(February 13, 2010 at 10:35 pm)Watson Wrote: You read the Bible wrong.

Oh really?
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source...db3WNsDyXA
This is a christian website talking about hell

(February 13, 2010 at 10:35 pm)Watson Wrote: And I can't tell you how to recognize those ways, I can only give you examples of those ways and hope that you make the choice when something happens to step back and say "Hm. Maybe this is what that guy was talking about?"

Well give us some examples then.

Just because a Christian website says it is so, does not make it so. Again, Hell is a state of mind. It is physical for those within it and only those within it.

Examples? Kindly. First off, read the Bible. A wonderful treasure trove of how God and humanity both work.

Second, let's suppose that there is one day a man walking down the road. We'll call him James. James has decided he is going to kill himself. He walks complacently down the road, barely thinking about the task at hand he's put himself to. His goal is, in fact, to jump from a bridge a little way down the road.

About halfway down the road, a man passes by James and smiles, saying "Isn't it such a beautiful day today?" James thinks for a moment before answering, "Yes, it is quite beautiful out today. The other man walks on and James continues his path towards the bridge.

But now James looks around. He sees that, indeed, the weather is quite beautiful. There is not a cloud in the sky and the sun is shining wonderfully bright, but it's not hot. James smiles a smile much like the stranger he passed by's smile, and reflects on past sunny days like this one, where his life was good and enjoyable.

James suddenly realizes, then, that for him there will be no more sunny days. By this time, he's reached the bridge and is quite distraught. Before, where he was incredibly fine with killing himself, James now finds himself exponentially upset and sad at the thought of giving up all those sunny days, past present and future. Deciding that maybe this was not the best decision, James turns around and walks back home.

Glean what you will from that. I can give you as many of them as you'd like, I can even give you examples that have actually happened in real life.

(February 13, 2010 at 10:53 pm)Watson Wrote: Just because a Christian website says it is so, does not make it so.

I used that article because it quotes numerous passages from the bible that directly refer to hell.

Unless you have a different bible of course.

(February 13, 2010 at 10:53 pm)Watson Wrote: Again, Hell is a state of mind. It is physical for those within it and only those within it.

What does this even mean?

(February 13, 2010 at 10:53 pm)Watson Wrote: Examples? Kindly. First off, read the Bible. A wonderful treasure trove of how God and humanity both work.

Isn't it just(though not, I suspect for the reasons you are giving)

(February 13, 2010 at 10:53 pm)Watson Wrote: Second, let's suppose that there is one day a man walking down the road. We'll call him James. James has decided he is going to kill himself. He walks complacently down the road, barely thinking about the task at hand he's put himself to. His goal is, in fact, to jump from a bridge a little way down the road.

About halfway down the road, a man passes by James and smiles, saying "Isn't it such a beautiful day today?" James thinks for a moment before answering, "Yes, it is quite beautiful out today. The other man walks on and James continues his path towards the bridge.

But now James looks around. He sees that, indeed, the weather is quite beautiful. There is not a cloud in the sky and the sun is shining wonderfully bright, but it's not hot. James smiles a smile much like the stranger he passed by's smile, and reflects on past sunny days like this one, where his life was good and enjoyable.

James suddenly realizes, then, that for him there will be no more sunny days. By this time, he's reached the bridge and is quite distraught. Before, where he was incredibly fine with killing himself, James now finds himself exponentially upset and sad at the thought of giving up all those sunny days, past present and future. Deciding that maybe this was not the best decision, James turns around and walks back home.

Glean what you will from that. I can give you as many of them as you'd like, I can even give you examples that have actually happened in real life.

Well yes, I can see where god comes into it as opposed to James just having second thoughts.

Although the obvious question is why does he not then stop all suicides from killing themselves.

No, James just had seond thoughts, you see? God wasn't involved, He didn't do that. That would be taking away James' free will. James had to decide whether or not he wanted to kill himself, and guess what? James decided not to. He walked the path God had set for him, the gift of life, but God didn't force him to do it. He chose to.

And of course the Bible refers to Hell, it's speaking about the physical place of Hell which is also a state of mind. If you do not choose to go to Hell, you don't go to Hell. Hell is physical only once you get there, if you aren't there then it's nary a problem at all.

(February 13, 2010 at 10:38 pm)Watson Wrote: That's a period, not a comma, dude.

So why would god permit such a thing to happen.

Especially if, by intervening he is showing the satanist the error of his ways.

And saving the life of the child at the same time.

(February 14, 2010 at 12:11 am)Zen Badger Wrote:

(February 13, 2010 at 10:38 pm)Watson Wrote: That's a period, not a comma, dude.

So why would god permit such a thing to happen.

Especially if, by intervening he is showing the satanist the error of his ways.

And saving the life of the child at the same time.

He gave the child life, as He also gave the Satanist life. He left it in their hands what to do with that life. Unfortunately, do to the misdeeds of the Satanist, the child did not have a chance to experience all of that life for itself. However, in death God takes the child's soul to Heaven and it is permitted the chance to make more choices for him'herself from there on.

I'm interested, how do you think God should have intervened?

(February 14, 2010 at 12:11 am)Watson Wrote: No, James just had seond thoughts, you see? God wasn't involved, He didn't do that. That would be taking away James' free will. James had to decide whether or not he wanted to kill himself, and guess what? James decided not to. He walked the path God had set for him, the gift of life, but God didn't force him to do it. He chose to.

So god doing nothing is evidence of god. ooooookayyy

(February 13, 2010 at 10:53 pm)Watson Wrote: And of course the Bible refers to Hell, it's speaking about the physical place of Hell which is also a state of mind. If you do not choose to go to Hell, you don't go to Hell. Hell is physical only once you get there, if you aren't there then it's nary a problem at all.

So even as a sinner if I choose not to go to hell I won't.

Sounds good to me, not much of a threat of punishment tho.

God gave the gift of life. Like a construction worker building a road with many off-shoots, He forged the world. What road and what off-shoot you take, then, is entirely up to you. James chose to stay on the road, instead of crashing his car into the ditch beside the road.

Get it?

And define 'sinner' for me. As I said, if you choose to sin that's up to you, but you're the one making your life a living Hell in doing so, not God. When you die, all you have to look forward to, then, is what you've done to yourself. The worst form of punishment is knowing it's all your fault.

(February 14, 2010 at 12:15 am)Watson Wrote:

(February 14, 2010 at 12:11 am)Zen Badger Wrote:

(February 13, 2010 at 10:38 pm)Watson Wrote: That's a period, not a comma, dude.

So why would god permit such a thing to happen.

Especially if, by intervening he is showing the satanist the error of his ways.

And saving the life of the child at the same time.

He gave the child life, as He also gave the Satanist life. He left it in their hands what to do with that life. Unfortunately, do to the misdeeds of the Satanist, the child did not have a chance to experience all of that life for itself. However, in death God takes the child's soul to Heaven and it is permitted the chance to make more choices for him'herself from there on.

I'm interested, how do you think God should have intervened?

Wouldn't satan be pissed at god stealing the sacrifice mean't for him?

And why bother with the sacrifice if it isn't going to the intended recipient?

As to how god should have intervened, who cares?

It's not germane to the discussion.

Yeah, but do you expect Satan/Lucifer to intervene any more so than God? No, of course not, since 'the Devil's worst trick is making people think he doesn't exist at all.'

Why bother with the sacrifice? Uuuh, because the Satanist thought it would go to Lucifer, which it would not. The sacrifice is meaningless, obviously.

And I assert that it's extremely important to this discussion how you think God should have intervened. You think that His intervention would have helped anything, tell me in what way He should have done so?