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December 30, 2013 at 8:47 pm (This post was last modified: December 30, 2013 at 8:51 pm by StoryBook.)
(December 30, 2013 at 7:15 pm)Godschild Wrote: Yes I can and do. I know without a doubt that God is real and is who He says He is, I know His word ie. Bible is trustworthy and reveals God to the world. Knowing this I trust God when He said there are no other gods, He is the only true and real God. You have a great misunderstanding of faith as many do on this forum. Faith is trusting what the real and only God says is true, knowing God is real is the only way one can come to that kind of trust.
Why? Why are you so sure? What makes you think that of all the gods that yours is correct? Are you that afraid of being wrong? Or are you afraid of the other gods,because they don't match your personal views? Or are you afraid to think for yourself and just let "god" take care of things?
Quote:The God of creation, there's no other, He's the One you rebel against.
[quote]What meaning for eternal punishment? I did not chose hell, I chose neither.
[quote]
By not choosing God's gift for repentance you have chosen hell. Unforgiven sin is what places you in hell, and Christ is the only avenue to forgiveness.
GC
(December 30, 2013 at 7:05 pm)StoryBook Wrote: So you mean that this loving god will send a 3year old to hell? Even go as far as torture that 3 year old to death, with cancer. This 3 year does not understand how to repent, god, or believe in god for that matter. So by your saying, its ok for god to send that child to hell. How sick, does not sound like enough time to me.
Quote:Your being ridiculous, a three year old doesn't even know what sin is, young children are loved deeply by God, Christ when He was on earth warned against mistreating young children and keeping them from Him. You only have to be sensible when thinking about what God would do, why would you believe God would send a three year old to hell, could it be because someone told you this or because that's how you want to see God in your rebellion. No matter which it is they both seem to me to be a sick way of looking at God and life, wouldn't you say? God does not give cancer to children or anyone else, those types of things happen in life, God can, does and will work through these bad things to help people, we only have to look for Him.
GC
True they do not know but they can still sin. No one told me this, I'm an observer and thinker, it is what I see.I'm also not rebelling...
God is the creator, so he is the one that made life sick like that. How you are blind to it is even more sickening. Again the creator of "life" must of also created cancer. So how is letting a child die helping him/her or its family? Don't see god helping with cancer there...
(December 30, 2013 at 4:18 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Interesting concept. You speak of balance for sin, fair enough. But then we start talking about eternal hell. Now I can't think of any sin which would be balanced by eternity. TIME, maybe. But eternity?
How is that balanced?
Heaven is always open to those that love the Lord more than their own sin. The wicked prefer the darkness of their own lies and the searing flames of their own filthy and violent desires.
(December 30, 2013 at 10:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Heaven is always open to those that love the Lord more than their own sin. The wicked prefer the darkness of their own lies and the searing flames of their own filthy and violent desires.
So, let me get this straight: your view is that the universe is run by an omnipotent deity, for which hell is a punishment for sin in which to balance the scales, yet it is unique among punishments for being one in name only, without the measures of redress nor education that real punishments have, and that the only escape from it, once inside, is to love the being currently knowingly burning you alive for all eternity? Have I got that right, or am I misreading some part of it?
If not... How does any of that make sense to you?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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(December 30, 2013 at 7:15 pm)Godschild Wrote: Yes I can and do. I know without a doubt that God is real and is who He says He is, I know His word ie. Bible is trustworthy and reveals God to the world. Knowing this I trust God when He said there are no other gods, He is the only true and real God. You have a great misunderstanding of faith as many do on this forum. Faith is trusting what the real and only God says is true, knowing God is real is the only way one can come to that kind of trust.
Why? Why are you so sure? What makes you think that of all the gods that yours is correct? Are you that afraid of being wrong? Or are you afraid of the other gods,because they don't match your personal views? Or are you afraid to think for yourself and just let "god" take care of things?
I have nothing to fear, the God of creation is by my side, watching over me continually. I have a personal relationship with God and through this relationship God has revealed Himself to me, you see no matter what others think or want to believe I know for a fact God is real. As for the other gods they have never approached me, let lone prove themselves to me.
(December 30, 2013 at 7:05 pm)StoryBook Wrote: So you mean that this loving god will send a 3year old to hell? Even go as far as torture that 3 year old to death, with cancer. This 3 year does not understand how to repent, god, or believe in god for that matter. So by your saying, its ok for god to send that child to hell. How sick, does not sound like enough time to me.
GC Wrote:Your being ridiculous, a three year old doesn't even know what sin is, young children are loved deeply by God, Christ when He was on earth warned against mistreating young children and keeping them from Him. You only have to be sensible when thinking about what God would do, why would you believe God would send a three year old to hell, could it be because someone told you this or because that's how you want to see God in your rebellion. No matter which it is they both seem to me to be a sick way of looking at God and life, wouldn't you say? God does not give cancer to children or anyone else, those types of things happen in life, God can, does and will work through these bad things to help people, we only have to look for Him.
GC
SB Wrote:True they do not know but they can still sin. No one told me this, I'm an observer and thinker, it is what I see.I'm also not rebelling...
Three year old children do wrong, yet God doesn't hold it against them because they do not understand what sin is.
No one told you what, I do not know what you are referencing to, sorry? Everyone that hasn't come to God the Father through Jesus Christ is in rebellion against God. I would have to search the scriptures and will if you want, but there are many passages telling us who rebels and why. I'm not trying to say your a bad person, I was also at one time rebelling against God, heck even Christians rebel against God at points in their lives.
SB Wrote:God is the creator, so he is the one that made life sick like that. How you are blind to it is even more sickening. Again the creator of "life" must of also created cancer. So how is letting a child die helping him/her or its family? Don't see god helping with cancer there...
No, God created a perfect world with no disease or death, only after Adam and Eve sinned did the creation suffer the fall from God's protection and disease and death came into the world. Our sin is responsible for all the bad things in the world, not God.
When a child has cancer it's difficult to see any good, but God works through good and bad to show people His great love for them. I know, then why doesn't God just heal the children, if it's part of His unchangable will, He will, if not then He has some reason and we may never know why.
As far as me not being able to see God's work, well I think you're wrong. I do not look at God as good or bad, I see Him as the perfectly righteous Being who will, no, who has given everything to redeem everyone who wants Him to.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Esq, the afterlife is not so different from this one with respect to choice. In this life a drunk will choose the comfort of drink over the love of his family. The belligerent chooses to let rage fill his heart rather than compassion. The rake chooses whoring instead of conjugal pleasure. Each truly believes their compulsions are in some way preferable to the good and wholesome permitted pleasures. Each is in the hell of their own unrepentant choosing. Death only confirms these choices.
(December 31, 2013 at 7:04 am)Godschild Wrote: I have nothing to fear, the God of creation is by my side, watching over me continually. I have a personal relationship with God and through this relationship God has revealed Himself to me, you see no matter what others think or want to believe I know for a fact God is real. As for the other gods they have never approached me, let lone prove themselves to me.
How did he reveal himself to you?(and saying from the book does not count). You see when I was really little I pretended god would talk to me, but nothing I "prayed" for happened. Then I grew out of the imaginary friend stage. All my 22 years of life god never revealed himself to me.
GC Wrote:Three year old children do wrong, yet God doesn't hold it against them because they do not understand what sin is.
No one told you what, I do not know what you are referencing to, sorry? Everyone that hasn't come to God the Father through Jesus Christ is in rebellion against God. I would have to search the scriptures and will if you want, but there are many passages telling us who rebels and why. I'm not trying to say your a bad person, I was also at one time rebelling against God, heck even Christians rebel against God at points in their lives.
Not to sound conceited, but I think I'm more forgiving then god. How could this eternal being just give up and condemn people just because they didn't believe. Aldo where is the cut off age for children? What about mentally disabled people?
Quote:No, God created a perfect world with no disease or death, only after Adam and Eve sinned did the creation suffer the fall from God's protection and disease and death came into the world. Our sin is responsible for all the bad things in the world, not God.
When a child has cancer it's difficult to see any good, but God works through good and bad to show people His great love for them. I know, then why doesn't God just heal the children, if it's part of His unchangable will, He will, if not then He has some reason and we may never know why.
As far as me not being able to see God's work, well I think you're wrong. I do not look at God as good or bad, I see Him as the perfectly righteous Being who will, no, who has given everything to redeem everyone who wants Him to.
GC
Not to be rude but "Our sin"(I know you mean man kind)? He allows an innocent child/or person to suffer because of "our sin". That's rather sad. I don't see anything perfect about it.
(December 23, 2013 at 11:12 am)StoryBook Wrote: Why would god make so many mistakes if he is the all powerful creator?
He made humans and everything and gave us all sin? Why?
He made all humans, so he made some gay. Why does he frown upon what he made?
He knows all, so wouldn’t he know that we would torture and kill his “son”?
He made humans so why did his son have to be born and not created?
Why would god make the devil just to have fun taunting and tempting us?
Yea I think to much,but never understood these.
1. No mistakes were made, his creation is perfect by definition.
2. He didn't give us sin, Eve did (cuz she's a crazy woman).
3. Being gay is a choice, (obviously )
4. The son had to die to save us from out own trespasses.
4. The son had to be God in human flesh so that he could be an example to everyone else.
5. Again, the devil was made out of the devil's own free will. The devil is powerless save for the power we give him, so yeah.
Yup, I think that's the Christian perspective answers to those questions. Still doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
(December 31, 2013 at 3:15 pm)StoryBook Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='573489' dateline='1388487884']
I have nothing to fear, the God of creation is by my side, watching over me continually. I have a personal relationship with God and through this relationship God has revealed Himself to me, you see no matter what others think or want to believe I know for a fact God is real. As for the other gods they have never approached me, let lone prove themselves to me.
SB Wrote:How did he reveal himself to you?(and saying from the book does not count). You see when I was really little I pretended god would talk to me, but nothing I "prayed" for happened. Then I grew out of the imaginary friend stage. All my 22 years of life god never revealed himself to me.
Wait a minute here, you're saying I can't use part of how God communicates with people, you really believe that's fair? What if I said you had to prove nuclear fusion to me but you could not use any text, kind of unfair wouldn't you say. God's conviction was through His word, through reading the scriptures God started working with me. I found myself seeing that I was in need of forgiveness of my sin and eventually committed myself to Jesus. This started my road to a relationship with God, as I grew in the relationship God continually showed me who He is, this came through experiencing the things God promises and through answered prayer and ect.
Pretending God talked to you is not being realistic and of coarse that's not unusual little kids and because of this your prayers were not sincere, so no answers. What were you praying for. Your first prayers should be asking God to reveal Himself to you and help you to see through His eyes. You think that just maybe you haven't been trying to hear God, and have you been asking God to reveal Himself to you, are you or have you ever seriously wanted to know God.
GC Wrote:
Three year old children do wrong, yet God doesn't hold it against them because they do not understand what sin is.
No one told you what, I do not know what you are referencing to, sorry? Everyone that hasn't come to God the Father through Jesus Christ is in rebellion against God. I would have to search the scriptures and will if you want, but there are many passages telling us who rebels and why. I'm not trying to say your a bad person, I was also at one time rebelling against God, heck even Christians rebel against God at points in their lives.
SB Wrote:Not to sound conceited, but I think I'm more forgiving then god. How could this eternal being just give up and condemn people just because they didn't believe. Aldo where is the cut off age for children? What about mentally disabled people?
The age is different for each some understand before others, as for the mentally handicapped that would be determined by severity and their ability to understand.
You really believe you're more forgiving, would you allow you son to die a death no on should have to suffer, would you allow him to give up all the advantages he had to be able to live a life he was completely a stranger to, a life of destitution and hardship, a life where most only wanted the physical things he could give them and not care about the forgiveness he was offering. Could you forgive these people for their treatment of your son, and that's just for starters.
GC Wrote:
No, God created a perfect world with no disease or death, only after Adam and Eve sinned did the creation suffer the fall from God's protection and disease and death came into the world. Our sin is responsible for all the bad things in the world, not God.
When a child has cancer it's difficult to see any good, but God works through good and bad to show people His great love for them. I know, then why doesn't God just heal the children, if it's part of His unchangable will, He will, if not then He has some reason and we may never know why.
As far as me not being able to see God's work, well I think you're wrong. I do not look at God as good or bad, I see Him as the perfectly righteous Being who will, no, who has given everything to redeem everyone who wants Him to.
GC
SB Wrote:Not to be rude but "Our sin"(I know you mean man kind)? He allows an innocent child/or person to suffer because of "our sin". That's rather sad. I don't see anything perfect about it.
There is nothing perfect about life and God says because of the sin in the world that's the way it will be to the end of time, sin brought in the imperfection and until time runs it's course it will be with us. God has no choice but to let things happen, we have caused this not God, He however is going to make everything right.
Let's look at a suffering child, one who gave up His royalty to live as a suffering servant, who willingly died a death no one should suffer let lone One who was perfect in all ways. Why did He do this so, that one day in the future no one would have to suffer ever again and this comes through the acceptance of what He did for us.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
December 31, 2013 at 7:53 pm (This post was last modified: December 31, 2013 at 7:56 pm by Bob Kelso.)
(December 31, 2013 at 6:30 pm)Godschild Wrote: Wait a minute here, you're saying I can't use part of how God communicates with people, you really believe that's fair? What if I said you had to prove nuclear fusion to me but you could not use any text, kind of unfair wouldn't you say.
Plenty of other resources in science. One could find an amiable scientist who could demonstrate the concept/mathematics/experimental process, completely fair. The bible is the claim not the proof.
(December 31, 2013 at 6:30 pm)Godschild Wrote: God's conviction was through His word, through reading the scriptures God started working with me. I found myself seeing that I was in need of forgiveness of my sin and eventually committed myself to Jesus. This started my road to a relationship with God, as I grew in the relationship God continually showed me who He is, this came through experiencing the things God promises and through answered prayer and ect.
Was this truly a god answering your prayers or things that simply happened in your favor and therefore a god did it?
(December 31, 2013 at 6:30 pm)Godschild Wrote: The age is different for each some understand before others, as for the mentally handicapped that would be determined by severity and their ability to understand.
Care to tell us how you have this insider knowledge of how god chooses which children and mentally disabled to send to hell?
(December 31, 2013 at 6:30 pm)Godschild Wrote: You really believe you're more forgiving, would you allow you son to die a death no on should have to suffer, would you allow him to give up all the advantages he had to be able to live a life he was completely a stranger to, a life of destitution and hardship, a life where most only wanted the physical things he could give them and not care about the forgiveness he was offering. Could you forgive these people for their treatment of your son, and that's just for starters.
I'm certainly more forgiving. If I was an omnipotent god I would figure out a better way to save humanity than using my son/self as a scapegoat in the first place. Not to mention not blaming people for not taking a 2000 year old fallible work of literature on it's word.
(December 31, 2013 at 6:30 pm)Godschild Wrote: There is nothing perfect about life and God says because of the sin in the world that's the way it will be to the end of time, sin brought in the imperfection and until time runs it's course it will be with us. God has no choice but to let things happen, we have caused this not God, He however is going to make everything right.
Let's look at a suffering child, one who gave up His royalty to live as a suffering servant, who willingly died a death no one should suffer let lone One who was perfect in all ways. Why did He do this so, that one day in the future no one would have to suffer ever again and this comes through the acceptance of what He did for us.
GC
See the above post about a supposedly limitless being finding other ways to do things. Your god seems oddly close minded for one that's suggested to know everything.
@ StoryBook, I see you gave a kudos to a young kid who has no idea what being a Christian is all about, a kid who cares not to find truth, he's only interested in ridiculing Christians. If this is all you care about then why were we even having a conversation, by you not responding to my last post and letting someone else speak for you I take it your purpose is no different than his.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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