(January 2, 2014 at 10:41 am)ChadWooters Wrote:

(January 1, 2014 at 12:51 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: You Christians see your bible as evidence but the rest of the world does not. You claim it is the holy word of god, great happy for you, care to present me with the evidence that it is? Then we'll talk.

Since you lack the mental capacity to see beyond your own Christophobia, I must demonstrate to you your lack of imagination. The bible could be evidence for any of the following:

The existence of the Q gospel.
Political structure of the Roman empire.
Confirming the location of various historical sites.
The role of slavery in ancient Hebrew society.
Etc., etc.

As you can see the biblical texts can serve as evidence supporting a wide range of theories, both religious AND secular.

I will now accept your admission of guilt for mindlessly parroting the stupidity of others.

Is it your bloody job to state the bleedingly obvious or what Wooters? Of course it's evidence for those mundane issues.

I'm not sure what context means to you but it's goddamned obvious I was referring to the bible being evidence for the existence of god you smug idiot.

Godschild Wrote:I use the Bible to find the truth, much proof lies within the scriptures and then they also lead to truths that are in everyday life. I never use the Bible as an excuse for anything, it is what it is, God's revelation to man of His will for those who choose to accept it. It's not meant to scare anyone, those who use it that way are not being honest about God and His love for man.

That is how it is always used. A threat, if you don't believe you go to hell;if you don't do this you go to hell... It is gods word that if you don't do what he says you go to hell. That's not love..

Quote:Now I'm going to ask you to prove to me your statements that the Bible has been mistranslated and revised. There is only one version of the Bible, it has been translated into more modern English so it's easier to understand than the Old English no one speaks now. We've also learned more about the ancient languages over the years so we are better able to translate the Bible and gather the meanings from it God intended. We also find older manuscripts that give us insight into the ancient writings. These are some reasons you see the Bible updated from time to time. The Book of Isaiah was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, it is the oldest copy ever found, it is virtually word for word the same as later copies and up to the modern translation of today's Bible. People are not trying to translate the Bible into what they want people so see, you've been feed a bunch of bull about mistranslated scripture, there are to many eyes on the old manuscripts to misrepresent them.

(To the bold)Do you know the difference between almah and bethulah (Hebrew words)?

Why wouldn't this god just make it so people could all understand, instead of sending innocent people to eternal hell?

(to the italicized) "I do not hold to all the denomination believes". Seem you have translated things to what you want people to see. You are not following 100%.

Quote:It's strange you would use the science of weather to say the Bible is not accurate about the cause of weather. Did you know that the Bible taught the evaporation of the oceans as what cause most of the rain on earth, probably a thousand years before science was able to prove that was the case. The Bible is also considered by many Christian and non- Christians as one of the most accurate time lines for history. Di you know that the Egyptians math system improved greatly after Abraham lived there, curious wouldn't you say.

I think I know the verse you are referring to. I think your over estimating it. It implies to be talking of fog/mist, not evaporation.

So which "translation" of the bible you read?

Quote:Yes, this world can seem like hell at times, why, again the reason is sin. God has allowed mankind to suffer through this world's bad things because we are responsible for the world's condition, not God. Sins of the past, sins now and sins of the future are all committed by mankind and is why we have this world full of terrible things. So why shouldn't we have to live with what we've made.

So animals must bare our sins too...

Quote:Everything was perfect until Adam and Eve sinned after that so to speak, the world became man's creation or in this case a wreck.
You ask how God's going to make things right, well He already has, through Jesus Christ things are made right, we become part of the kingdom of God at least those who accept Him. Does that change thing here, no we still have the same old world to live in, but now we have God's help to get through the day. In the end there will be eternal life in paradise for those of us who have chosen Christ over the world.

God made the mistake of Adam and Ave. Then allows them to pass their sin, from gods mistake, to the rest of mankind. So then after all these generation .... People dieing, and going where? hell? God decides to have his "son" help us from sin. Fails, but is still our savor because now we have the chance to go to heaven?

Quote:God doesn't have a child to suffer, the suffering comes because life happens, God will be there to help us through the bad parts of life and there to keep us on a even keel when things are going exceptionally well for us. God is our friend and helper, that is if one accepts Him in a relationship as such.

GC

Helper that doesn't help the kid suffering to death?

"Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man—living in the sky—who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time . . . But He loves you!
—GEORGE CARLIN"

(January 3, 2014 at 3:28 pm)Severan Wrote: "Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man—living in the sky—who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time . . . But He loves you!
—GEORGE CARLIN"

"He loves you, and he needs money!"
-- George Carlin

Godschild Wrote:

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I use the Bible to find the truth, much proof lies within the scriptures and then they also lead to truths that are in everyday life. I never use the Bible as an excuse for anything, it is what it is, God's revelation to man of His will for those who choose to accept it.

---

It's not meant to scare anyone, those who use it that way are not being honest about God and His love for man.

SB Wrote:That is how it is always used. A threat, if you don't believe you go to hell;if you don't do this you go to hell... It is gods word that if you don't do what he says you go to hell. That's not love..

No it's not, love, peace, kindness, service and many other things are taught by scripture and in many churches. The scripture says a person goes to hell because of the sins that person commits, it also says that a person can find forgiveness of sin through Christ and the love He showed in His life death and resurrection.

GC Wrote:Now I'm going to ask you to prove to me your statements that the Bible has been mistranslated and revised.

---

There is only one version of the Bible, it has been translated into more modern English so it's easier to understand than the Old English no one speaks now. We've also learned more about the ancient languages over the years so we are better able to translate the Bible and gather the meanings from it God intended. We also find older manuscripts that give us insight into the ancient writings. These are some reasons you see the Bible updated from time to time. The Book of Isaiah was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, it is the oldest copy ever found, it is virtually word for word the same as later copies and up to the modern translation of today's Bible.

---

People are not trying to translate the Bible into what they want people to see, you've been feed a bunch of bull about mistranslated scripture, there are to many eyes on the old manuscripts to misrepresent them.

SB Wrote:(To the bold)Do you know the difference between almah and bethulah (Hebrew words)?

Why wouldn't this god just make it so people could all understand, instead of sending innocent people to eternal hell?

(to the italicized) "I do not hold to all the denomination believes". Seem you have translated things to what you want people to see. You are not following 100%.

Not off the top of my head, though I can pick up a Hebrew or Greek to English dictionary and easily find the meanings. I rely on the professionals to do their jobs correctly and translate the words properly and give me footnotes if there's a doubt about the translation. I do look up many words in the Hebrew and Greek to find out if the words are used correctly if I believe that there's a problem with a translation or if I need to show someone what the actual Hebrew or Greek means, sometimes the meanings lose something in translation.

The Bible was written thousands of years ago to a people of a different time a different place and a different culture. God has made it very simple and it's been explained very simply, God's plan is for all the simple minded to the extremely intelligent. Read John 3:16 and tell me what seems to be so complicated. This verse is the essence of God's plan.

So you're telling me you are an expert on the translation of scripture from the Hebrew and Greek, then why do you find the scriptures so difficult. How is it you are an expert on the denominations and how each sees the scriptures. As far as I know most believe that John 3:16 is essential to what they believe and after that it's mostly how each see we should live out our Christian lives.

GC Wrote:

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It's strange you would use the science of weather to say the Bible is not accurate about the cause of weather. Did you know that the Bible taught the evaporation of the oceans as what cause most of the rain on earth, probably a thousand years before science was able to prove that was the case. The Bible is also considered by many Christian and non- Christians as one of the most accurate time lines for history. Di you know that the Egyptians math system improved greatly after Abraham lived there, curious wouldn't you say.

---

SB Wrote:I think I know the verse you are referring to. I think your over estimating it. It implies to be talking of fog/mist, not evaporation.

So which "translation" of the bible you read?

They had no word for evaporation then, no they did not know the science behind evaporation and condensation, what they knew through observation was the oceans were responsible for cloud formation and the rain that fell, science later proved them correct.
I use the NASB, the ESV, the NLT and the NIV along with many study aids.

GC Wrote:Yes, this world can seem like hell at times, why, again the reason is sin. God has allowed mankind to suffer through this world's bad things because we are responsible for the world's condition, not God. Sins of the past, sins now and sins of the future are all committed by mankind and is why we have this world full of terrible things. So why shouldn't we have to live with what we've made.

SB Wrote:So animals must bare our sins too...

Yes and the fault lies with us, what a shameful thing we do.

GC Wrote:Everything was perfect until Adam and Eve sinned after that so to speak, the world became man's creation or in this case a wreck.
You ask how God's going to make things right, well He already has, through Jesus Christ things are made right, we become part of the kingdom of God at least those who accept Him. Does that change thing here, no we still have the same old world to live in, but now we have God's help to get through the day. In the end there will be eternal life in paradise for those of us who have chosen Christ over the world.

SB Wrote:God made the mistake of Adam and Ave. Then allows them to pass their sin, from gods mistake, to the rest of mankind. So then after all these generation .... People dieing, and going where? hell? God decides to have his "son" help us from sin. Fails, but is still our savor because now we have the chance to go to heaven?

God has never made a mistake, that would be something impossible for an omniscient being. You and I are responsible for our own sin, it can't be passed off to another. If God had not allowed Adam and Eve the free will to choose, then what kind of God would He be, you've expressed your desire not to be controlled by Him, do you think they would have felt differently. If they did, they sure didn't show it through their actions, they chose to disobey God ie. to be sinful. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your statement above. I'll try and give an answer though. Who says all people were going to hell before Christ and exactly what have you got against Christ being our substitute for our sin so we can go to heaven.

GC Wrote:God doesn't have a child to suffer, the suffering comes because life happens, God will be there to help us through the bad parts of life and there to keep us on a even keel when things are going exceptionally well for us. God is our friend and helper, that is if one accepts Him in a relationship as such.

GC

SB Wrote: Helper that doesn't help the kid suffering to death?

How is it you assume the suffering child is not being helped by God, have you ever asked suffering children if God is helping them? Let's look at it through God's eyes, this child who suffers from cancer from no fault of it's own nor God's fault, dies! God knowing the future if the child had not die, the future could be a destitute drug addict living on the streets being abused through rape and prostitution just to stay alive, eating from garbage cans and dumpsters, freezing at night and sweating through the day, bathing only a few times a year. Then AIDS either from rape, prostitution or drug use and possibly a death worse than the one that might have happened as a child. If God allows the death as a child the child not being held responsible for it's sin would be with God in eternity. If God had stopped the suffering and healed the child, allowed it's choices to lead it through the described life and then to a miserable death and then an eternal punishment for it's years of sin. Could be God loved the child enough to allow some suffering to prevent a future that would be nothing but hell, both here and after death.

GC

(January 3, 2014 at 5:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: No it's not, love, peace, kindness, service and many other things are taught by scripture and in many churches. The scripture says a person goes to hell because of the sins that person commits, it also says that a person can find forgiveness of sin through Christ and the love He showed in His life death and resurrection.

All the things you are forced to do to go to heaven. Yet this is also the things to do to avoid hell. Hell is scary and forever. Even when you get there and decide to believe and love in god, it is to late because god now hates you and does not want your forgiveness. Also yet if you kill in the name of god you will go to heaven(but of course the one you murder goes to hell). See this is why religion is threatening.

GC Wrote:Now I'm going to ask you to prove to me your statements that the Bible has been mistranslated and revised.

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There is only one version of the Bible, it has been translated into more modern English so it's easier to understand than the Old English no one speaks now. We've also learned more about the ancient languages over the years so we are better able to translate the Bible and gather the meanings from it God intended. We also find older manuscripts that give us insight into the ancient writings. These are some reasons you see the Bible updated from time to time. The Book of Isaiah was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, it is the oldest copy ever found, it is virtually word for word the same as later copies and up to the modern translation of today's Bible.

---

People are not trying to translate the Bible into what they want people to see, you've been feed a bunch of bull about mistranslated scripture, there are to many eyes on the old manuscripts to misrepresent them.



Not off the top of my head, though I can pick up a Hebrew or Greek to English dictionary and easily find the meanings. I rely on the professionals to do their jobs correctly and translate the words properly and give me footnotes if there's a doubt about the translation. I do look up many words in the Hebrew and Greek to find out if the words are used correctly if I believe that there's a problem with a translation or if I need to show someone what the actual Hebrew or Greek means, sometimes the meanings lose something in translation.

The Bible was written thousands of years ago to a people of a different time a different place and a different culture. God has made it very simple and it's been explained very simply, God's plan is for all the simple minded to the extremely intelligent. Read John 3:16 and tell me what seems to be so complicated. This verse is the essence of God's plan.

So you're telling me you are an expert on the translation of scripture from the Hebrew and Greek, then why do you find the scriptures so difficult. How is it you are an expert on the denominations and how each sees the scriptures. As far as I know most believe that John 3:16 is essential to what they believe and after that it's mostly how each see we should live out our Christian lives.

Sorry I guess I should of said more...My point is mistranslation.. "almah"is the Hebrew word for young woman or woman of marriageable age. "bethulah" is the Hebrew word for virgin. In the original text Mary is describe as "almah" NOT "bethulah". When translated to Greek it was misinterpreted.

You missed the point and helped prove it. It was in a different culture. Other religions are in different cultures. God apparently showed himself to one culture. The rest must be the only ones that "made up" gods, because god didn't love them. So they are doomed to sin, because they are in a different culture and do not understand that god appeared on the other side of the world-in a different place. All those doomed people on the other in a different place not knowing a thing of "greatness" happened.

Also John 3:16 sounds kinda threatening. I never claimed to be an expert. I was just pointing out your contradiction. I posted this thread to expand my knowledge.

GC Wrote:They had no word for evaporation then, no they did not know the science behind evaporation and condensation, what they knew through observation was the oceans were responsible for cloud formation and the rain that fell, science later proved them correct.
I use the NASB, the ESV, the NLT and the NIV along with many study aids.

"He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries.” Psalms 135:7 Is this the verse? The site I found it on said it was. I don't see ocean/sea in there. The way it is written implies fog though. guess "god" didn't make for everyone to understand correctly

GC Wrote:God has never made a mistake, that would be something impossible for an omniscient being. You and I are responsible for our own sin, it can't be passed off to another. If God had not allowed Adam and Eve the free will to choose, then what kind of God would He be, you've expressed your desire not to be controlled by Him, do you think they would have felt differently. If they did, they sure didn't show it through their actions, they chose to disobey God ie. to be sinful. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your statement above. I'll try and give an answer though. Who says all people were going to hell before Christ and exactly what have you got against Christ being our substitute for our sin so we can go to heaven.

Making sinful humans is not a mistake?
A happy, un-threatening one, that is bored?

He was to save us from sin. So we had sin before Christ, and still after

GC Wrote:How is it you assume the suffering child is not being helped by God, have you ever asked suffering children if God is helping them? Let's look at it through God's eyes, this child who suffers from cancer from no fault of it's own nor God's fault, dies! God knowing the future if the child had not die, the future could be a destitute drug addict living on the streets being abused through rape and prostitution just to stay alive, eating from garbage cans and dumpsters, freezing at night and sweating through the day, bathing only a few times a year. Then AIDS either from rape, prostitution or drug use and possibly a death worse than the one that might have happened as a child. If God allows the death as a child the child not being held responsible for it's sin would be with God in eternity. If God had stopped the suffering and healed the child, allowed it's choices to lead it through the described life and then to a miserable death and then an eternal punishment for it's years of sin. Could be God loved the child enough to allow some suffering to prevent a future that would be nothing but hell, both here and after death.

GC

Have you made yourself blind to seeing pain too? Only see what you want?

(January 3, 2014 at 7:35 pm)StoryBook Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='575609' dateline='1388785958']
No it's not, love, peace, kindness, service and many other things are taught by scripture and in many churches. The scripture says a person goes to hell because of the sins that person commits, it also says that a person can find forgiveness of sin through Christ and the love He showed in His life death and resurrection.

SB Wrote: All the things you are forced to do to go to heaven. Yet this is also the things to do to avoid hell. Hell is scary and forever. Even when you get there and decide to believe and love in god, it is to late because god now hates you and does not want your forgiveness. Also yet if you kill in the name of god you will go to heaven(but of course the one you murder goes to hell). See this is why religion is threatening.

I do not know of any forcing to live a certain way, I do know and understand the transformation that takes place as we grow in a relationship with Christ. A Christian life is like any other life, you live it, there is no burden to it as you seem to believe. No one can live a life care free with no rules, life lived comes with some type of rules whether you're a Christian, atheist or whatever.
A Christian doesn't have to avoid anything, a Christian wants to avoid those things that are sinful, we are not perfect, we do sin and we understand we need forgiveness.
You have a great misunderstanding about hell other than you know it's a scary place. Actually it's a place of self made horror, a place where a person can find no love, it's a place where love can not exist, ever. Hate, despite, mean spirited, any and every kind of ugliness that's ever existed. A person will believe in God before they are in hell, they will be before Him in the Judgement. I do not believe God can hate even those who will spend eternity in hell, I see no reason that He would.
If one kills in the name of God that doesn't mean they will be in hell, it's murder, invoking the name of God doesn't change the fact it's murder, and the person who perishes could be a Christian and go to heaven. I still do not see that you've shown that Christianity is threatening.

GC Wrote:Now I'm going to ask you to prove to me your statements that the Bible has been mistranslated and revised.

---

There is only one version of the Bible, it has been translated into more modern English so it's easier to understand than the Old English no one speaks now. We've also learned more about the ancient languages over the years so we are better able to translate the Bible and gather the meanings from it God intended. We also find older manuscripts that give us insight into the ancient writings. These are some reasons you see the Bible updated from time to time. The Book of Isaiah was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, it is the oldest copy ever found, it is virtually word for word the same as later copies and up to the modern translation of today's Bible.

---

People are not trying to translate the Bible into what they want people to see, you've been feed a bunch of bull about mistranslated scripture, there are to many eyes on the old manuscripts to misrepresent them.



[quote='GC']

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Not off the top of my head, though I can pick up a Hebrew or Greek to English dictionary and easily find the meanings. I rely on the professionals to do their jobs correctly and translate the words properly and give me footnotes if there's a doubt about the translation. I do look up many words in the Hebrew and Greek to find out if the words are used correctly if I believe that there's a problem with a translation or if I need to show someone what the actual Hebrew or Greek means, sometimes the meanings lose something in translation.

---

The Bible was written thousands of years ago to a people of a different time a different place and a different culture. God has made it very simple and it's been explained very simply, God's plan is for all the simple minded to the extremely intelligent. Read John 3:16 and tell me what seems to be so complicated. This verse is the essence of God's plan.

---

So you're telling me you are an expert on the translation of scripture from the Hebrew and Greek, then why do you find the scriptures so difficult. How is it you are an expert on the denominations and how each sees the scriptures. As far as I know most believe that John 3:16 is essential to what they believe and after that it's mostly how each see we should live out our Christian lives.

---

SB Wrote:Sorry I guess I should of said more...My point is mistranslation.. "almah"is the Hebrew word for young woman or woman of marriageable age. "bethulah" is the Hebrew word for virgin. In the original text Mary is describe as "almah" NOT "bethulah". When translated to Greek it was misinterpreted.

You're right, however that mistake in translation doesn't mean Mary wasn't a virgin, it does mean she was of the age to be married and this was the point the original translation was trying to make. A virgin could been of any age, young to old.

SB Wrote:You missed the point and helped prove it. It was in a different culture. Other religions are in different cultures. God apparently showed himself to one culture. The rest must be the only ones that "made up" gods, because god didn't love them. So they are doomed to sin, because they are in a different culture and do not understand that god appeared on the other side of the world-in a different place. All those doomed people on the other in a different place not knowing a thing of "greatness" happened.

I do not think I misunderstood, the point I made was that today's culture didn't exist, so why should we expect the writings to be any different than they are. You do not expect the writings of other ancient literature to be any different than they are so why do you want a different standard for the Bible.
You're forgetting the book of Genesis where all people knew about God and then abandoned what they knew for gods that were only stone or wood, yes they abandoned the one living God. So God established a people to reveal Himself to the world once again, this is the purpose of the nation of Israel and they were, are and will be God's special people because of what they went through because of Him. God gave His Son as a sacrifice for mankind, He didn't forget anyone and as for those who have not or did not hear about Christ they will be judged by God fairly in what they did know about right living.

SB Wrote:Also John 3:16 sounds kinda threatening. I never claimed to be an expert. I was just pointing out your contradiction. I posted this thread to expand my knowledge.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and whoever believes in Him (what He did and is) shall not perish but have everlasting life." Please show me how that verse could be in the slightest threatening.
It's good to see that there are some here that are willing to listen and learn. Thanks for being honest.

GC Wrote:

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They had no word for evaporation then, no they did not know the science behind evaporation and condensation, what they knew through observation was the oceans were responsible for cloud formation and the rain that fell, science later proved them correct.
I use the NASB, the ESV, the NLT and the NIV along with many study aids.

---

SB Wrote:"He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries.” Psalms 135:7 Is this the verse? The site I found it on said it was. I don't see ocean/sea in there. The way it is written implies fog though. guess "god" didn't make for everyone to understand correctly

I do not remember the verse I'll see if I can find it, but the verse you have found still speaks of the ends of the earth, which I believe refers to the ocean, it also speaks to rain and lightning, I see nothing about a foggy mist.

GC Wrote:God has never made a mistake, that would be something impossible for an omniscient being. You and I are responsible for our own sin, it can't be passed off to another. If God had not allowed Adam and Eve the free will to choose, then what kind of God would He be, you've expressed your desire not to be controlled by Him, do you think they would have felt differently. If they did, they sure didn't show it through their actions, they chose to disobey God ie. to be sinful. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your statement above. I'll try and give an answer though. Who says all people were going to hell before Christ and exactly what have you got against Christ being our substitute for our sin so we can go to heaven.

SB Wrote:Making sinful humans is not a mistake?
A happy, un-threatening one, that is bored?

Not sure what you find funny. God made them perfect and with free will. They used that free will to defy God's commandment and caused their perfect state to be lost, and the relationship they had with God was lost. They understood what they had done, that's why they were hiding from God. Ever since that time God put His plan into place to redeem man so we could live in that perfect state with God.

SB Wrote:He was to save us from sin. So we had sin before Christ, and still after

Why are you confused, God said sin would always be with mankind until the end of time. We are redeemed through Christ, that is God forgives the sins of those who accept Christ into their lives.

GC Wrote:How is it you assume the suffering child is not being helped by God, have you ever asked suffering children if God is helping them? Let's look at it through God's eyes, this child who suffers from cancer from no fault of it's own nor God's fault, dies! God knowing the future if the child had not die, the future could be a destitute drug addict living on the streets being abused through rape and prostitution just to stay alive, eating from garbage cans and dumpsters, freezing at night and sweating through the day, bathing only a few times a year. Then AIDS either from rape, prostitution or drug use and possibly a death worse than the one that might have happened as a child. If God allows the death as a child the child not being held responsible for it's sin would be with God in eternity. If God had stopped the suffering and healed the child, allowed it's choices to lead it through the described life and then to a miserable death and then an eternal punishment for it's years of sin. Could be God loved the child enough to allow some suffering to prevent a future that would be nothing but hell, both here and after death.

GC

SB Wrote:Have you made yourself blind to seeing pain too? Only see what you want?

I live in pain every minute of every day, so yes I understand pain, I also understand the mental pain of having sick loved ones, my dad is gone and my mom is not well and I worry every day about her. We just buried my wife's father who had been very sick for several years and I just lost an aunt yesterday who had been sick with a bad heart for some time. Yes I understand pain, well, both physically and mentally.
What I see is life and how things can turn out, I've been around for some time and have seen and lived through much, experience has a lot going for it when it comes to truth.

GC

So gods child, a question

In your theology a person who has lived a good worthy, sinless life but doesn't believe in your god is going to hell.

But a person who has lied, stolen, raped and murdered all his life but accepts Jesus just before he dies goes to heaven.

And you don't see a problem with this?

(January 4, 2014 at 9:00 am)Godschild Wrote: No it's not, love, peace, kindness, service and many other things are taught by scripture and in many churches. The scripture says a person goes to hell because of the sins that person commits, it also says that a person can find forgiveness of sin through Christ and the love He showed in His life death and resurrection.

Quote:I do not know of any forcing to live a certain way, I do know and understand the transformation that takes place as we grow in a relationship with Christ. A Christian life is like any other life, you live it, there is no burden to it as you seem to believe. No one can live a life care free with no rules, life lived comes with some type of rules whether you're a Christian, atheist or whatever.
A Christian doesn't have to avoid anything, a Christian wants to avoid those things that are sinful, we are not perfect, we do sin and we understand we need forgiveness.
You have a great misunderstanding about hell other than you know it's a scary place. Actually it's a place of self made horror, a place where a person can find no love, it's a place where love can not exist, ever. Hate, despite, mean spirited, any and every kind of ugliness that's ever existed. A person will believe in God before they are in hell, they will be before Him in the Judgement. I do not believe God can hate even those who will spend eternity in hell, I see no reason that He would.
If one kills in the name of God that doesn't mean they will be in hell, it's murder, invoking the name of God doesn't change the fact it's murder, and the person who perishes could be a Christian and go to heaven. I still do not see that you've shown that Christianity is threatening.

So it is ok to kill in the name of god?
So you are really not afraid of going to hell? The treat of hell is not scary to you?

SB Wrote:Sorry I guess I should of said more...My point is mistranslation.. "almah"is the Hebrew word for young woman or woman of marriageable age. "bethulah" is the Hebrew word for virgin. In the original text Mary is describe as "almah" NOT "bethulah". When translated to Greek it was misinterpreted.

Quote:You're right, however that mistake in translation doesn't mean Mary wasn't a virgin, it does mean she was of the age to be married and this was the point the original translation was trying to make. A virgin could been of any age, young to old.

So where did the "magic" birth come from?

SB Wrote:You missed the point and helped prove it. It was in a different culture. Other religions are in different cultures. God apparently showed himself to one culture. The rest must be the only ones that "made up" gods, because god didn't love them. So they are doomed to sin, because they are in a different culture and do not understand that god appeared on the other side of the world-in a different place. All those doomed people on the other in a different place not knowing a thing of "greatness" happened.

Quote:I do not think I misunderstood, the point I made was that today's culture didn't exist, so why should we expect the writings to be any different than they are. You do not expect the writings of other ancient literature to be any different than they are so why do you want a different standard for the Bible.
You're forgetting the book of Genesis where all people knew about God and then abandoned what they knew for gods that were only stone or wood, yes they abandoned the one living God. So God established a people to reveal Himself to the world once again, this is the purpose of the nation of Israel and they were, are and will be God's special people because of what they went through because of Him. God gave His Son as a sacrifice for mankind, He didn't forget anyone and as for those who have not or did not hear about Christ they will be judged by God fairly in what they did know about right living.

Sorry your talking circles and missing logic.

Quote:"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and whoever believes in Him (what He did and is) shall not perish but have everlasting life." Please show me how that verse could be in the slightest threatening.
It's good to see that there are some here that are willing to listen and learn. Thanks for being honest.

If you don't believe you will parish. THAT IS A THREAT

GC Wrote:God has never made a mistake, that would be something impossible for an omniscient being. You and I are responsible for our own sin, it can't be passed off to another. If God had not allowed Adam and Eve the free will to choose, then what kind of God would He be, you've expressed your desire not to be controlled by Him, do you think they would have felt differently. If they did, they sure didn't show it through their actions, they chose to disobey God ie. to be sinful. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your statement above. I'll try and give an answer though. Who says all people were going to hell before Christ and exactly what have you got against Christ being our substitute for our sin so we can go to heaven.

SB Wrote:Making sinful humans is not a mistake?
A happy, un-threatening one, that is bored?

Quote:Not sure what you find funny. God made them perfect and with free will. They used that free will to defy God's commandment and caused their perfect state to be lost, and the relationship they had with God was lost. They understood what they had done, that's why they were hiding from God. Ever since that time God put His plan into place to redeem man so we could live in that perfect state with God.

I guess they are NOT perfect if they sin...

Quote:I live in pain every minute of every day, so yes I understand pain, I also understand the mental pain of having sick loved ones, my dad is gone and my mom is not well and I worry every day about her. We just buried my wife's father who had been very sick for several years and I just lost an aunt yesterday who had been sick with a bad heart for some time. Yes I understand pain, well, both physically and mentally.
What I see is life and how things can turn out, I've been around for some time and have seen and lived through much, experience has a lot going for it when it comes to truth.

GC

I am sorry to hear all that. I can understand know why YOU have have turned to god. You want answers and hope, which is only human. I guess god is the only thing keeping you from going more insane.

You see I look at the world in a whole different "logic" then you. I SEE the world, without god, and can still find some comfort in it. I study animal behavior and have learned much about life through how they live. They do not worship a god, they live and die and just accept it. They seem to have more free will then we do. I try to find good in life and don't need some god or mistranslated old book to tell me what is right or wrong...

The creation is a mix of good and evil because evil allows for the manifestation of good. Good cannot exist without evil.