(January 9, 2014 at 9:40 pm)StoryBook Wrote:

(January 9, 2014 at 5:44 pm)Godschild Wrote: Yet you call me closed minded because I see evolution differently than you do. I base my conclusion on evolution by what I read, not what you want me to believe.



No you're rejecting every thing I've shown you, this is why you have so many questions, just to be honest I'm not clear on why you're asking are you?




Do you ask questions of scientist who disagree with evolution, do you ever question the theory of evolution or do you just accept what you're told, and you question me about being one sided.



Then please explain how you are honestly looking at both sides, when you reject every thing shown to you about God. How can you find the answers going the rejection route.


Reread what?



Blinders, how so, like I said I look at things through God's eyes.





By the relationship I have with Him, He has shown me many things over the years, like I said before answers to questions about His word that wasn't making sense to me. He completely changed my life, from a person who cared only for himself, a heavy drinker who enjoyed drinking, a user of drugs who enjoyed using them, into someone who enjoys helping others, giving of my time to serve others through teaching and leadership, I could have never done these things on my own, I use to get scared talking in front of a lot of people, now I'm completely comfortable with it. God promised to supply for me and He has, He's brought people to me to help with problems or just be a comfort to. God has made things in my life possible that I could never have on my own. I've asked very specific answers from God and have received answers in the most untimely places.


I know how the Catholic Church can be, my wife use to be Catholic. Being Catholic seems to be more important than actually being a Christian. Ritual seems to be what drives most Catholics, please don't misunderstand I believe many Catholics are Christians, what I do not believe, is that for the most part the Catholic hierarchy cares about the salvation Christ brought to the world, the ritual part of the religion is more important to them, they go against some of the most basic teachings of the Bible, the Bible is our instruction book and shouldn't be ignored.

GC

Ok, excuse me if I sound rude. I don’t mean to be, just trying to make things straight.

Quote:1. You say god, knows all and made it so everyone could understand his word. I find it very hard to understand that. How come no one can agree on the same thing? Why are their different ideas on what god ment?
I’m not trying to say you are wrong, just that you are not adding up…

Let me try and explain myself better. First God does know all things, that doesn't mean everyone will know correctly all of His word. Everyone can read God's word and get a surface understanding of it, however one needs to have a relationship with God and the willingness to accept what God reveals in His word, not what we want to hear, but what God reveals. The Bible was written so those who seek God can find Him without having a greater understanding about God and His will ie. the NT and salvation. Once a person comes to God through Jesus Christ and they desire that greater understanding, God will reveal things that can't be understood through reading it without God's direction. Like I said before, there are many Christians that have a personal agenda for what God's will means, one that will fit their life style, they do not want to surrender to the greater plan God has for their life, or they believe they know God's will before God teaches them. So you see some Christians do get the big head within the church and try and run their part of it by their own desires instead of first asking God what He wants them to accomplish in His will. So to put it in simple terms, many of the things people hear from Christians, are what they say God wants, without ever consulting God, in other words they do not get far below the surface meaning of God's word themselves.

Quote:2. I’m not calling you closed minded because you evolution different. I’ calling you closed minded because you claim to see through gods eyes, like god. Yet you are only seeing what you think he wants you to see, that’s closed minded. You are automatically assuming that because it is not in your book that there is not possibility of it, which is closed minded.

I see things through God's eyes because He has taught me through His word, I wasn't talking just about nature, mostly life. Science has taught us a lot about nature, it's my belief that they got the theory of evolution wrong, they took natural selection to the extreme, an extreme that doesn't make sense. I am seeing things He wants me to see, oh I'm sure I bring my opinion into what God says at times, I'm not perfect. When something goes against God's word I appose it, I'm sure there are many things in God's word that I accept, such as natural selection. Natural selection isn't in scripture, yet it doesn't go against what God's word teaches. You do the same things as others here do, you assume I assume if it's not in the Bible it's not real and that's just not the way it is.

Quote:3. I do question things in evolution, BUT I do see truth in it. I do believe we have evolved from single cells, just look at pregnancy. See you have conditioned yourself to not question god but who created god? How did he become to be? There will always be questions to our excitants, not even you can delude yourself to know the reason to life or how it really came to be.

I have questioned God about what's in the Bible, why, because I wanted to know what the meaning of certain things were, what I was being taught or had decided for myself just didn't make sense, so I asked God and not other people.
God answers that through the scriptures, He says He was not created, He says He as always existed. No one could understand this especially during the times the word of God was being written, so why should He even try to explain how that is possible.
I haven't deluded my self about life, I know God to be perfectly truthful to me, so why should I doubt He did as He said and created all things. I do not need to be concerned about how life came into existence, I know this, I do like learning about how life works. As far as pregnancy is concerned, the DNA is already there to instruct the development.

Quote:4.So science makes a little more sense to me than a 2000+ year old book that was writer centuries after you supposed creation. Science keeps discovering and researching new things, but you book stays with its misinterpreted stories. I can see things in science, but have yet to see a man walk on water.

Okay let's come to an understanding, if you are not going to show me the Bible is misinterpreted you need to accept it is. I'm sure you are going on what nonbelievers have shown you or the biased information from the internet. Misinterpretation has be argued here many times and nothing has been shown to be misinterpreted. Sure there are a few words we do not know the exact meaning of, but there are many very intelligent people who have translated scriptures and have been able to piece together a probable meaning. Do you know the standards that were set forward before the newest translation were published, if not you should look into it.
I've never seen a man walk on water either, but I know God did, remember when I said God can make His creation work for His will. I also gave you a verse that said, "nothing is impossible for God."
You mean to say you're not impressed by a book that has never needed to change, I see the beauty in that.

Quote:5.I’m not rejecting as you say, I’m questing. What you say brings more questions to my head. Sorry if you make you think…

I'm glad you have these questions and hope you continue to ask, but it seems that everything I've said so far has been rejected by you, please keep the questions coming. I want guarantee I can always give you an answer but, I will try.

Quote:6.Honestly, drinking and drugs are pretty generic things. Many people stop without go. Can you elaborate more on how god helped you overcome that? How did he send people to help you?

God put people into my life that started praying for me and God went to work in my life by doing nothing. What I mean by nothing He removed His grace from my life and I was alone to deal with the world. I was felling at everything badly, even my marriage looked hopeless. I knew God was working on me in this way, so I came back to Him and turned my life over to Him and immediately my life began to change for the better. Quite smoking, drinking, drugs and all the rest that was tearing my life apart. All at once, no I'll do one at a time but all of them at one time. You may believe drinking and drugs are generic, I disagree completely, I've lost friends to these things and seen enough lives ruined to fill a large neighborhood.
For those who know how to use prayer they can unleash the great and loving power of God, I'm so thankful for those who decided to work in God's will for me.

GC Wrote:I know how the Catholic Church can be, my wife use to be Catholic. Being Catholic seems to be more important than actually being a Christian. Ritual seems to be what drives most Catholics, please don't misunderstand I believe many Catholics are Christians, what I do not believe, is that for the most part the Catholic hierarchy cares about the salvation Christ brought to the world, the ritual part of the religion is more important to them, they go against some of the most basic teachings of the Bible, the Bible is our instruction book and shouldn't be ignored.
GC

Quote:So you think that your way of understanding the bible is the only right way? I’m confused as to how you know that they are doing “wrong”? Does that mean they will go to hell?

No, not at all, there is the basics that bring salvation and most but not all denominations hold to these basics, from there many different ideas have formed over 2000 years, many wrong and many correct. The finial judgement as to who goes to heaven is God's, and that judgement is based on one's relationship with Jesus.

GC Wrote:you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

SB Wrote:Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

GC Wrote:Reread what?

Quote: the bolded…

I reread it and am not sure why it confuses you, please explain?

Quote:8.I find it sad and scary to worship someone that tells people to murder, promotes rape, promotes slavery, and deceives. He also gives threatening ultimatums. This is what I have learned and observed/ figured out

These are questions most Christians turn a blind eye to, however those are some of the things I questioned God about. Like I said I got an answer to them, an answer that goes deep below the surface, something I could not have understand without having a personal relationship with God ie. Jesus.

GC

---

(January 10, 2014 at 2:50 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: @GC, it depends on how the prophecy is presented. Some of God's prophecies have a "repent or else" format. In other cases fulfilment of the prophecy comes from a direct act of God's power apart from human choice. In effect God can make things happen too.

I see those things, but even some of the repent or else situations were made clear they would happen, so how did God know they wouldn't repent. Revelation is full of prophecy, unless one believes it's already finished, personally I do not. Israel has been re-established and this was an OT prophecy, I know you could say that God made it happen and I would agree, however God must have foreseen the reason for the re-establishment.

GC

(January 11, 2014 at 12:08 am)Godschild Wrote:

---

(January 9, 2014 at 9:40 pm)StoryBook Wrote: Ok, excuse me if I sound rude. I don’t mean to be, just trying to make things straight.

Quote:1. You say god, knows all and made it so everyone could understand his word. I find it very hard to understand that. How come no one can agree on the same thing? Why are their different ideas on what god ment?
I’m not trying to say you are wrong, just that you are not adding up…

Let me try and explain myself better. First God does know all things, that doesn't mean everyone will know correctly all of His word. Everyone can read God's word and get a surface understanding of it, however one needs to have a relationship with God and the willingness to accept what God reveals in His word, not what we want to hear, but what God reveals. The Bible was written so those who seek God can find Him without having a greater understanding about God and His will ie. the NT and salvation. Once a person comes to God through Jesus Christ and they desire that greater understanding, God will reveal things that can't be understood through reading it without God's direction. Like I said before, there are many Christians that have a personal agenda for what God's will means, one that will fit their life style, they do not want to surrender to the greater plan God has for their life, or they believe they know God's will before God teaches them. So you see some Christians do get the big head within the church and try and run their part of it by their own desires instead of first asking God what He wants them to accomplish in His will. So to put it in simple terms, many of the things people hear from Christians, are what they say God wants, without ever consulting God, in other words they do not get far below the surface meaning of God's word themselves.

Quote:2. I’m not calling you closed minded because you evolution different. I’ calling you closed minded because you claim to see through gods eyes, like god. Yet you are only seeing what you think he wants you to see, that’s closed minded. You are automatically assuming that because it is not in your book that there is not possibility of it, which is closed minded.

I see things through God's eyes because He has taught me through His word, I wasn't talking just about nature, mostly life. Science has taught us a lot about nature, it's my belief that they got the theory of evolution wrong, they took natural selection to the extreme, an extreme that doesn't make sense. I am seeing things He wants me to see, oh I'm sure I bring my opinion into what God says at times, I'm not perfect. When something goes against God's word I appose it, I'm sure there are many things in God's word that I accept, such as natural selection. Natural selection isn't in scripture, yet it doesn't go against what God's word teaches. You do the same things as others here do, you assume I assume if it's not in the Bible it's not real and that's just not the way it is.

Quote:3. I do question things in evolution, BUT I do see truth in it. I do believe we have evolved from single cells, just look at pregnancy. See you have conditioned yourself to not question god but who created god? How did he become to be? There will always be questions to our excitants, not even you can delude yourself to know the reason to life or how it really came to be.

I have questioned God about what's in the Bible, why, because I wanted to know what the meaning of certain things were, what I was being taught or had decided for myself just didn't make sense, so I asked God and not other people.
God answers that through the scriptures, He says He was not created, He says He as always existed. No one could understand this especially during the times the word of God was being written, so why should He even try to explain how that is possible.
I haven't deluded my self about life, I know God to be perfectly truthful to me, so why should I doubt He did as He said and created all things. I do not need to be concerned about how life came into existence, I know this, I do like learning about how life works. As far as pregnancy is concerned, the DNA is already there to instruct the development.

Quote:4.So science makes a little more sense to me than a 2000+ year old book that was writer centuries after you supposed creation. Science keeps discovering and researching new things, but you book stays with its misinterpreted stories. I can see things in science, but have yet to see a man walk on water.

Okay let's come to an understanding, if you are not going to show me the Bible is misinterpreted you need to accept it is. I'm sure you are going on what nonbelievers have shown you or the biased information from the internet. Misinterpretation has be argued here many times and nothing has been shown to be misinterpreted. Sure there are a few words we do not know the exact meaning of, but there are many very intelligent people who have translated scriptures and have been able to piece together a probable meaning. Do you know the standards that were set forward before the newest translation were published, if not you should look into it.
I've never seen a man walk on water either, but I know God did, remember when I said God can make His creation work for His will. I also gave you a verse that said, "nothing is impossible for God."
You mean to say you're not impressed by a book that has never needed to change, I see the beauty in that.

Quote:5.I’m not rejecting as you say, I’m questing. What you say brings more questions to my head. Sorry if you make you think…

I'm glad you have these questions and hope you continue to ask, but it seems that everything I've said so far has been rejected by you, please keep the questions coming. I want guarantee I can always give you an answer but, I will try.

Quote:6.Honestly, drinking and drugs are pretty generic things. Many people stop without go. Can you elaborate more on how god helped you overcome that? How did he send people to help you?

God put people into my life that started praying for me and God went to work in my life by doing nothing. What I mean by nothing He removed His grace from my life and I was alone to deal with the world. I was felling at everything badly, even my marriage looked hopeless. I knew God was working on me in this way, so I came back to Him and turned my life over to Him and immediately my life began to change for the better. Quite smoking, drinking, drugs and all the rest that was tearing my life apart. All at once, no I'll do one at a time but all of them at one time. You may believe drinking and drugs are generic, I disagree completely, I've lost friends to these things and seen enough lives ruined to fill a large neighborhood.
For those who know how to use prayer they can unleash the great and loving power of God, I'm so thankful for those who decided to work in God's will for me.

GC Wrote:I know how the Catholic Church can be, my wife use to be Catholic. Being Catholic seems to be more important than actually being a Christian. Ritual seems to be what drives most Catholics, please don't misunderstand I believe many Catholics are Christians, what I do not believe, is that for the most part the Catholic hierarchy cares about the salvation Christ brought to the world, the ritual part of the religion is more important to them, they go against some of the most basic teachings of the Bible, the Bible is our instruction book and shouldn't be ignored.
GC

Quote:So you think that your way of understanding the bible is the only right way? I’m confused as to how you know that they are doing “wrong”? Does that mean they will go to hell?

No, not at all, there is the basics that bring salvation and most but not all denominations hold to these basics, from there many different ideas have formed over 2000 years, many wrong and many correct. The finial judgement as to who goes to heaven is God's, and that judgement is based on one's relationship with Jesus.

GC Wrote:you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

SB Wrote:Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

GC Wrote:Reread what?

Quote: the bolded…

I reread it and am not sure why it confuses you, please explain?

Quote:8.I find it sad and scary to worship someone that tells people to murder, promotes rape, promotes slavery, and deceives. He also gives threatening ultimatums. This is what I have learned and observed/ figured out

These are questions most Christians turn a blind eye to, however those are some of the things I questioned God about. Like I said I got an answer to them, an answer that goes deep below the surface, something I could not have understand without having a personal relationship with God ie. Jesus.

GC

---

(January 10, 2014 at 2:50 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: @GC, it depends on how the prophecy is presented. Some of God's prophecies have a "repent or else" format. In other cases fulfilment of the prophecy comes from a direct act of God's power apart from human choice. In effect God can make things happen too.

I see those things, but even some of the repent or else situations were made clear they would happen, so how did God know they wouldn't repent. Revelation is full of prophecy, unless one believes it's already finished, personally I do not. Israel has been re-established and this was an OT prophecy, I know you could say that God made it happen and I would agree, however God must have foreseen the reason for the re-establishment.

GC

---

Ok, I think I made a connection here. I'm going to look at this in a different point of view.

First: God gave us free will. Free will has caused us to sin. So "Free will" = "Sin" ? To get rid of sin and be forgiven we must surrender to god, and ask for forgiveness, right? If so then we are giving up our free will...

Next, If I'm going to hell and going to suffer for eternity then others will have eternal happiness in heaven. But that can't be possible, god would have to take away free will. My family in heaven will be eternally sad because I am in hell.

Lastly: Thank you for helping me and giving me info. I have been doing lots of research because of the things you have said. Unfortunately some of what you have said does not make complete sense to me. I love figuring things out, mostly on my own. I do this by observing and analyzing. I also like looking at things in a Psychological way, guess that's why I'm really good with animal behavior.

So base on what you have told me,about how you can see god... I can fully believe in Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca . They created the world. They and the others gods help us all. Like Tonatiuh, which is the god of our sun. How else could this fire call of energy just be there. I also believe in Xochiquetzal, I can feel the love this goddess gives us, and see the flowers she has created. And so on(yes these are real).

See, no one can be 100% on creation. There are so many dam stories about creation and life. So much stuff people believe to be true because it is written down. You believe this because you have hope, and a subconscious fear of hell. You find parallels in your life and convince yourself of a reality from a book. A book that was written by a human, claim to get answers from a god. He saw life and made his own conclusion and story for it, just as all the others did for their god(s) and creation stories.
I'm not telling you to stop believing, you seem to have had a ruff time with life and are using this book to get you though it(life in general). I'm asking you to come back to reality for a bit and not be blind to the other possibility. To stop and see the world for yourself. I have looked at Buddhism and have seen that you can go though life and be happy without a god. I'm not Buddhist but the information I can get from it, and observing the world, and what you have said to me, I have found more to life and figured out things to help me better mine. It is a great power of wishful thinking. I'm trying to see things as a whole and not a part. All these stories seem to have something that off or illogical. People did/do whole heartily believe in these stories of creation. They feel the same way, that they are right, in the Muslim as you do about your god. Now you both can't be right, can you?

Wow now after all this I think I'm going from a 5 to a 6 on the Dawkins scale...

Just an open response here.

Good can exist without evil. Evil, can also exist without good. Here's an an analogy: matter and antimatter. It's like saying "matter cannot exist without antimatter"

Here's another thing to think about: Evil people can steal from evil people. Carnivores can eat carnivores. Good people can give and help good people. So don't give me that 'good cannot exist without evil and vice-versa' bullshit.

Quit being dumasses and get with the program

(January 11, 2014 at 12:27 pm)StoryBook Wrote:

(January 11, 2014 at 12:08 am)Godschild Wrote:

---

Let me try and explain myself better. First God does know all things, that doesn't mean everyone will know correctly all of His word. Everyone can read God's word and get a surface understanding of it, however one needs to have a relationship with God and the willingness to accept what God reveals in His word, not what we want to hear, but what God reveals. The Bible was written so those who seek God can find Him without having a greater understanding about God and His will ie. the NT and salvation. Once a person comes to God through Jesus Christ and they desire that greater understanding, God will reveal things that can't be understood through reading it without God's direction. Like I said before, there are many Christians that have a personal agenda for what God's will means, one that will fit their life style, they do not want to surrender to the greater plan God has for their life, or they believe they know God's will before God teaches them. So you see some Christians do get the big head within the church and try and run their part of it by their own desires instead of first asking God what He wants them to accomplish in His will. So to put it in simple terms, many of the things people hear from Christians, are what they say God wants, without ever consulting God, in other words they do not get far below the surface meaning of God's word themselves.


I see things through God's eyes because He has taught me through His word, I wasn't talking just about nature, mostly life. Science has taught us a lot about nature, it's my belief that they got the theory of evolution wrong, they took natural selection to the extreme, an extreme that doesn't make sense. I am seeing things He wants me to see, oh I'm sure I bring my opinion into what God says at times, I'm not perfect. When something goes against God's word I appose it, I'm sure there are many things in God's word that I accept, such as natural selection. Natural selection isn't in scripture, yet it doesn't go against what God's word teaches. You do the same things as others here do, you assume I assume if it's not in the Bible it's not real and that's just not the way it is.


I have questioned God about what's in the Bible, why, because I wanted to know what the meaning of certain things were, what I was being taught or had decided for myself just didn't make sense, so I asked God and not other people.
God answers that through the scriptures, He says He was not created, He says He as always existed. No one could understand this especially during the times the word of God was being written, so why should He even try to explain how that is possible.
I haven't deluded my self about life, I know God to be perfectly truthful to me, so why should I doubt He did as He said and created all things. I do not need to be concerned about how life came into existence, I know this, I do like learning about how life works. As far as pregnancy is concerned, the DNA is already there to instruct the development.


Okay let's come to an understanding, if you are not going to show me the Bible is misinterpreted you need to accept it is. I'm sure you are going on what nonbelievers have shown you or the biased information from the internet. Misinterpretation has be argued here many times and nothing has been shown to be misinterpreted. Sure there are a few words we do not know the exact meaning of, but there are many very intelligent people who have translated scriptures and have been able to piece together a probable meaning. Do you know the standards that were set forward before the newest translation were published, if not you should look into it.
I've never seen a man walk on water either, but I know God did, remember when I said God can make His creation work for His will. I also gave you a verse that said, "nothing is impossible for God."
You mean to say you're not impressed by a book that has never needed to change, I see the beauty in that.


I'm glad you have these questions and hope you continue to ask, but it seems that everything I've said so far has been rejected by you, please keep the questions coming. I want guarantee I can always give you an answer but, I will try.


God put people into my life that started praying for me and God went to work in my life by doing nothing. What I mean by nothing He removed His grace from my life and I was alone to deal with the world. I was felling at everything badly, even my marriage looked hopeless. I knew God was working on me in this way, so I came back to Him and turned my life over to Him and immediately my life began to change for the better. Quite smoking, drinking, drugs and all the rest that was tearing my life apart. All at once, no I'll do one at a time but all of them at one time. You may believe drinking and drugs are generic, I disagree completely, I've lost friends to these things and seen enough lives ruined to fill a large neighborhood.
For those who know how to use prayer they can unleash the great and loving power of God, I'm so thankful for those who decided to work in God's will for me.



No, not at all, there is the basics that bring salvation and most but not all denominations hold to these basics, from there many different ideas have formed over 2000 years, many wrong and many correct. The finial judgement as to who goes to heaven is God's, and that judgement is based on one's relationship with Jesus.





I reread it and am not sure why it confuses you, please explain?


These are questions most Christians turn a blind eye to, however those are some of the things I questioned God about. Like I said I got an answer to them, an answer that goes deep below the surface, something I could not have understand without having a personal relationship with God ie. Jesus.

GC

---

I see those things, but even some of the repent or else situations were made clear they would happen, so how did God know they wouldn't repent. Revelation is full of prophecy, unless one believes it's already finished, personally I do not. Israel has been re-established and this was an OT prophecy, I know you could say that God made it happen and I would agree, however God must have foreseen the reason for the re-establishment.

GC

---

Ok, I think I made a connection here. I'm going to look at this in a different point of view.

First: God gave us free will. Free will has caused us to sin. So "Free will" = "Sin" ? To get rid of sin and be forgiven we must surrender to god, and ask for forgiveness, right? If so then we are giving up our free will...

Yes God gave us free will, yet free will did not cause us to sin, if you would read the scriptures you would see pride was the cause for sin, self pride. We do need to surrender to God by giving up our self pride, until we can do that we can't ask for forgiveness, forgiveness come through repentance and repentance is giving up self pride. No we do not ever give up our free will, God would not have it like that.

Quote:Next, If I'm going to hell and going to suffer for eternity then others will have eternal happiness in heaven. But that can't be possible, god would have to take away free will. My family in heaven will be eternally sad because I am in hell.

No, your family will understand God's justice, as scripture says, there will be no more sorrows nor tears in heaven. If you go to hell it will be of your own choice and in hell you will have the freedom to continue your hatred for God, everyone keeps their free will.

Quote:Lastly: Thank you for helping me and giving me info. I have been doing lots of research because of the things you have said. Unfortunately some of what you have said does not make complete sense to me. I love figuring things out, mostly on my own. I do this by observing and analyzing. I also like looking at things in a Psychological way, guess that's why I'm really good with animal behavior.

I hope you will continue looking and I will always try and give you answers to questions, if you're still confused just ask. I can only give you answers that I understand, God's the only one who can give you those answers that can satisfy.

Quote:So base on what you have told me,about how you can see god... I can fully believe in Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca . They created the world. They and the others gods help us all. Like Tonatiuh, which is the god of our sun. How else could this fire call of energy just be there. I also believe in Xochiquetzal, I can feel the love this goddess gives us, and see the flowers she has created. And so on(yes these are real).

How is it that other gods can exist when God says there are no other gods besides me, the creator of the universe and the One who has always been should know, right? If these gods exist why have they never come to me and ask me to believe in them, why did they not give up a sacrifice to save me from my sin.

Quote:See, no one can be 100% on creation. There are so many dam stories about creation and life. So much stuff people believe to be true because it is written down. You believe this because you have hope, and a subconscious fear of hell. You find parallels in your life and convince yourself of a reality from a book. A book that was written by a human, claim to get answers from a god. He saw life and made his own conclusion and story for it, just as all the others did for their god(s) and creation stories.

The first problem with you assumption, is that only one person wrote the Bible, there have been many authors, before making assumptions about the Bible you should first understand some of the basics about it. There is One who's responsible for the Bible, God.
I'm 100% sure that God created the universe, absolutely no doubts.

Quote:I'm not telling you to stop believing, you seem to have had a ruff time with life and are using this book to get you though it(life in general).

Asking me to stop believing would be futile, to give up what I know for sure would be stupid of me. Your mistake is that you think I believe in a book to get me through life, you could not be farther from the truth, God is who gets me through life and I find God's solutions in His word, the Bible is an instruction book that God has given to us. I have had rough patches in my life, but far from what many others have experienced so I consider myself fortunate and well looked after by God.

Quote: I'm asking you to come back to reality for a bit and not be blind to the other possibility. To stop and see the world for yourself. I have looked at Buddhism and have seen that you can go though life and be happy without a god. I'm not Buddhist but the information I can get from it, and observing the world, and what you have said to me, I have found more to life and figured out things to help me better mine. It is a great power of wishful thinking. I'm trying to see things as a whole and not a part. All these stories seem to have something that off or illogical. People did/do whole heartily believe in these stories of creation. They feel the same way, that they are right, in the Muslim as you do about your god. Now you both can't be right, can you?

I've lived in the world, actually many years without trusting God for anything, I thought things were fine and believed I knew the truth about life. Then I came to God through Christ and found how wrong I was, life as a greater meaning to me now and I live for others not just myself, being part of God's plan is an honor not a burden, most can't see this but it's true. We can make a burden of anything when things do not please us, in Christianity as long as we will serve God first, which means serving others before ourselves, we will have less time to worry about ourselves and our petty problems.

Quote:Wow now after all this I think I'm going from a 5 to a 6 on the Dawkins scale...

Backing up in life has never solved a thing, and when God is call to us backing up only makes things more difficult. I know you do not understand this hopefully on day you will. If Dawkins was so sure of himself then why did he find the need to attack Christianity, why didn't he just keep up promoting evolution. If he was so sure that Christianity was wrong why would he find it a threat to himself, I've seen his talks and he was self promoting, he never cared for others, it's as plain as the nose on my face. Even if I were an believer in evolution I still would find a man like him repulsive at best, his hatred for Christianity was obvious, on things for sure he now knows the truth, one way or the other.

GC

(January 14, 2014 at 5:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: Yes God gave us free will, yet free will did not cause us to sin, if you would read the scriptures you would see pride was the cause for sin, self pride. We do need to surrender to God by giving up our self pride, until we can do that we can't ask for forgiveness, forgiveness come through repentance and repentance is giving up self pride. No we do not ever give up our free will, God would not have it like that.

And how did we get "self pride"? Who gave it to us?

Quote:No, your family will understand God's justice, as scripture says, there will be no more sorrows nor tears in heaven. If you go to hell it will be of your own choice and in hell you will have the freedom to continue your hatred for God, everyone keeps their free will.

Who are you to assume that my family will not miss me. People are not suppose to get sad? Isn't free will connected to sadness? Our emotions are free will, are they not?

Quote:
I hope you will continue looking and I will always try and give you answers to questions, if you're still confused just ask. I can only give you answers that I understand, God's the only one who can give you those answers that can satisfy.

if you don't get fed up with my ridiculous thinking

Quote:How is it that other gods can exist when God says there are no other gods besides me, the creator of the universe and the One who has always been should know, right? If these gods exist why have they never come to me and ask me to believe in them, why did they not give up a sacrifice to save me from my sin.

I have counted over 30 creation stories, and have read a few. You think that your is the only one right "because is says so"? You don't know much about them so you didn't make them up in your imagination? You have yet to give me a straight answer on how your god has shown himself. All the see you you making the assumption that god did, because that is what you want to believe.

Quote:See, no one can be 100% on creation. There are so many dam stories about creation and life. So much stuff people believe to be true because it is written down. You believe this because you have hope, and a subconscious fear of hell. You find parallels in your life and convince yourself of a reality from a book. A book that was written by a human, claim to get answers from a god. He saw life and made his own conclusion and story for it, just as all the others did for their god(s) and creation stories.

Quote:The first problem with you assumption, is that only one person wrote the Bible, there have been many authors, before making assumptions about the Bible you should first understand some of the basics about it. There is One who's responsible for the Bible, God.
I'm 100% sure that God created the universe, absolutely no doubts.

I knew there are many, just didn't write it that my bad. I was in a train of though and not paying attention.

Anyway. Many writers makes sense as to why there are so MANY contradictions.

Quote:Asking me to stop believing would be futile, to give up what I know for sure would be stupid of me. Your mistake is that you think I believe in a book to get me through life, you could not be farther from the truth, God is who gets me through life and I find God's solutions in His word, the Bible is an instruction book that God has given to us. I have had rough patches in my life, but far from what many others have experienced so I consider myself fortunate and well looked after by God.

I see you have hope. God controls your life so you can go to heaven.
You come off as thinking that you are on the same level with god, why is that? You act like you are Jesus.

Quote:

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I'm asking you to come back to reality for a bit and not be blind to the other possibility. To stop and see the world for yourself. I have looked at Buddhism and have seen that you can go though life and be happy without a god. I'm not Buddhist but the information I can get from it, and observing the world, and what you have said to me, I have found more to life and figured out things to help me better mine. It is a great power of wishful thinking. I'm trying to see things as a whole and not a part. All these stories seem to have something that off or illogical. People did/do whole heartily believe in these stories of creation. They feel the same way, that they are right, in the Muslim as you do about your god. Now you both can't be right, can you?

---

Quote:I've lived in the world, actually many years without trusting God for anything, I thought things were fine and believed I knew the truth about life. Then I came to God through Christ and found how wrong I was, life as a greater meaning to me now and I live for others not just myself, being part of God's plan is an honor not a burden, most can't see this but it's true. We can make a burden of anything when things do not please us, in Christianity as long as we will serve God first, which means serving others before ourselves, we will have less time to worry about ourselves and our petty problems.

I help others, i'm not bad. I am more of an animal person tho. I guess you evil got likes taking his anger for humans out on animals to, so I have to step up. It's odd though i still don't get why he gave us flawed free will to sin.

Quote:Backing up in life has never solved a thing, and when God is call to us backing up only makes things more difficult. I know you do not understand this hopefully on day you will. If Dawkins was so sure of himself then why did he find the need to attack Christianity, why didn't he just keep up promoting evolution. If he was so sure that Christianity was wrong why would he find it a threat to himself, I've seen his talks and he was self promoting, he never cared for others, it's as plain as the nose on my face. Even if I were an believer in evolution I still would find a man like him repulsive at best, his hatred for Christianity was obvious, on things for sure he now knows the truth, one way or the other.

GC

Don't be silly. I'm not backing up. I am seeing the world, and moving forward. Your god refuses to show himself to me. I have tried to find him, yet all I see is sorrow. Only when I take control of my life that I have seen the world. I have found nature. "Mother nature"(the earth) has shown herself to me. I have seen the future in dreams(and have strong intuition of things to come) and have tons of Déjà vu moments. I also have an empathic ability, I can feel a persons or animals emotions/pain(it is true, that's why I have so many questions and thoughts).

As for Dawkins, I was just using the scale to show how I view, I don't know that much about him. I'm trying to come to my own reasoning on things, my own way

(January 14, 2014 at 9:06 pm)StoryBook Wrote:

(January 14, 2014 at 5:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: Yes God gave us free will, yet free will did not cause us to sin, if you would read the scriptures you would see pride was the cause for sin, self pride. We do need to surrender to God by giving up our self pride, until we can do that we can't ask for forgiveness, forgiveness come through repentance and repentance is giving up self pride. No we do not ever give up our free will, God would not have it like that.

And how did we get "self pride"? Who gave it to us?

It's part of our nature. It came into existence with Lucifer who wanted to reign over God, when that failed he tempted Adam and Eve into self pride by wanting to be equal to their creator.

GC Wrote:No, your family will understand God's justice, as scripture says, there will be no more sorrows nor tears in heaven. If you go to hell it will be of your own choice and in hell you will have the freedom to continue your hatred for God, everyone keeps their free will.

Quote:Who are you to assume that my family will not miss me. People are not suppose to get sad? Isn't free will connected to sadness? Our emotions are free will, are they not?

I'm telling you what God says, we will understand God's plan and why His justice reigns. God says we will not miss those lost to eternal punishment, God plan is for those in heaven to be eternally happy and at peace. Now that you have me thinking about it, those going to eternal punishment will probably be allowed to miss those in heaven, part of the punishment. If missing loved ones is part of eternal punishment it can't be part of eternal life in heaven.

Why are people not to be sad? No, free will is what it is a decision, though the decision can result in sadness or happiness.

GC Wrote:I hope you will continue looking and I will always try and give you answers to questions, if you're still confused just ask. I can only give you answers that I understand, God's the only one who can give you those answers that can satisfy.

Quote: if you don't get fed up with my ridiculous thinking

I see your thinking as influenced by many different views of the world and you're trying to sort out what is real and what isn't.

GC Wrote:How is it that other gods can exist when God says there are no other gods besides me, the creator of the universe and the One who has always been should know, right? If these gods exist why have they never come to me and ask me to believe in them, why did they not give up a sacrifice to save me from my sin.

Quote:I have counted over 30 creation stories, and have read a few. You think that your is the only one right "because is says so"? You don't know much about them so you didn't make them up in your imagination? You have yet to give me a straight answer on how your god has shown himself. All the see you you making the assumption that god did, because that is what you want to believe.

I would be surprised if there are only 30 and you're right I have not read others, I've heard the telling of native Americans creation stories. The God I worship came to me and showed me the truth, I did not seek Him out until He made Himself known to me. All those other gods have never come to me so why should I believe they created anything or for that matter believe in them.
God has answered my questions, I've seen Him working in others lives, just as you see the wind move things, yet you can't see the wind. I see God working though I can not see Him directly, you mistaken as to how I believe, you think I force myself to believe in God and the way He works, it is in reality God who causes me to believe because I want to understand, He teaches me in a spiritual relationship.

Quote:See, no one can be 100% on creation. There are so many dam stories about creation and life. So much stuff people believe to be true because it is written down. You believe this because you have hope, and a subconscious fear of hell. You find parallels in your life and convince yourself of a reality from a book. A book that was written by a human, claim to get answers from a god. He saw life and made his own conclusion and story for it, just as all the others did for their god(s) and creation stories.

GC Wrote:The first problem with you assumption, is that only one person wrote the Bible, there have been many authors, before making assumptions about the Bible you should first understand some of the basics about it. There is One who's responsible for the Bible, God.
I'm 100% sure that God created the universe, absolutely no doubts.

Quote:I knew there are many, just didn't write it that my bad. I was in a train of though and not paying attention.

Anyway. Many writers makes sense as to why there are so MANY contradictions.

You see contradictions simply because you're looking for contradictions, I see no contradictions because I allow God to guide me through the Bible and see the truth. Most so called contradictions come from cherry picking through scripture. A person needs to compare the scriptures to find answers, when I see what seems to be a contradiction I search out, with God's guidance, other scriptures on the same subject to find the truth within the scriptures.

GC Wrote:Asking me to stop believing would be futile, to give up what I know for sure would be stupid of me. Your mistake is that you think I believe in a book to get me through life, you could not be farther from the truth, God is who gets me through life and I find God's solutions in His word, the Bible is an instruction book that God has given to us. I have had rough patches in my life, but far from what many others have experienced so I consider myself fortunate and well looked after by God.

Quote:I see you have hope. God controls your life so you can go to heaven.
You come off as thinking that you are on the same level with god, why is that? You act like you are Jesus.

God does not control my life, I still have free will, God guides me through life through conviction and teaching me about life through scripture. I will be in heaven because of a choice I made not God controlling my life.
I do not understand where you believe I'm on the same level with God, He is my savior, my Lord, my guide and teacher all these in themselves would keep me below God. I tell you things God has taught me, sometimes directly and sometimes through His word, what you hear from me comes from God not of myself, yes God is speaking to you, I'm just the vessel He is using and I consider it a honor and pleasure to be a part of what He is doing.

Quote:

---

I'm asking you to come back to reality for a bit and not be blind to the other possibility. To stop and see the world for yourself. I have looked at Buddhism and have seen that you can go though life and be happy without a god. I'm not Buddhist but the information I can get from it, and observing the world, and what you have said to me, I have found more to life and figured out things to help me better mine. It is a great power of wishful thinking. I'm trying to see things as a whole and not a part. All these stories seem to have something that off or illogical. People did/do whole heartily believe in these stories of creation. They feel the same way, that they are right, in the Muslim as you do about your god. Now you both can't be right, can you?

---

GC Wrote:I've lived in the world, actually many years without trusting God for anything, I thought things were fine and believed I knew the truth about life. Then I came to God through Christ and found how wrong I was, life as a greater meaning to me now and I live for others not just myself, being part of God's plan is an honor not a burden, most can't see this but it's true. We can make a burden of anything when things do not please us, in Christianity as long as we will serve God first, which means serving others before ourselves, we will have less time to worry about ourselves and our petty problems.

Quote:I help others, i'm not bad. I am more of an animal person tho. I guess you evil got likes taking his anger for humans out on animals to, so I have to step up. It's odd though i still don't get why he gave us flawed free will to sin.

I have no doubt you are a bad person, you've given no indication you are. Helping others is a good thing in the fact that people need help regardless of the reason. However the reason speaks more about who a person is and what they want from there work. Some help to self promote ( that selfish pride I spoke of earlier), some help because they have pity on others, some help because the love others and see a need to be meet. Christians are to help others because we should love others over ourselves, we are to help meet the needs of others so others will see God in our work. Because Christians love God first we are able to help others that in other circumstances we would have ignored them. This is kind of like a Christian creed, God first, others second and self last, in this way loving God first allows us to love others in Gods plan more than we otherwise would and we place ourselves last so we can stay out of the way of God's work.
God gave use free will to make decisions to walk with Him or reject Him, it is only in this way we can show our real love or non love for God. Free will is not flawed, it's how we use it that can be flawed.

GC Wrote:Backing up in life has never solved a thing, and when God is calling to us, backing up only makes things more difficult. I know you do not understand this hopefully one day you will. If Dawkins was so sure of himself then why did he find the need to attack Christianity, why didn't he just keep up promoting evolution. If he was so sure that Christianity was wrong why would he find it a threat to himself, I've seen his talks and he was self promoting, he never cared for others, it's as plain as the nose on my face. Even if I were an believer in evolution I still would find a man like him repulsive at best, his hatred for Christianity was obvious, on things for sure he now knows the truth, one way or the other.

GC

Quote:Don't be silly. I'm not backing up. I am seeing the world, and moving forward. Your god refuses to show himself to me. I have tried to find him, yet all I see is sorrow. Only when I take control of my life that I have seen the world. I have found nature. "Mother nature"(the earth) has shown herself to me. I have seen the future in dreams(and have strong intuition of things to come) and have tons of Déjà vu moments. I also have an empathic ability, I can feel a persons or animals emotions/pain(it is true, that's why I have so many questions and thoughts).

To put it in simple terms when God is calling to a person and that person does not respond they are backing up, ie. moving away from God. Mother nature as you put it is only life through natural selection and entropy. God could have given you the ability to sense people's emotional needs and if that is so he wants to show you the best way to use that gift to help others, the omniscient God will know best how you should use such a gift.

Quote:As for Dawkins, I was just using the scale to show how I view, I don't know that much about him. I'm trying to come to my own reasoning on things, my own way

All I know to say to you about this is God will help, I know He did it for me, it has worked beyond what I could have ever imagined, I love Him for it and find a need for Him daily, God will come through if you allow Him to, it's your choice.

GC

Quote:Anyway. Many writers makes sense as to why there are so MANY contradictions.

(January 15, 2014 at 10:07 am)Godschild Wrote: You see contradictions simply because you're looking for contradictions, I see no contradictions because I allow God to guide me through the Bible and see the truth. Most so called contradictions come from cherry picking through scripture. A person needs to compare the scriptures to find answers, when I see what seems to be a contradiction I search out, with God's guidance, other scriptures on the same subject to find the truth within the scriptures.

Its like you see god because you are looking for god...
I'm not looking for contradiction, I see them. Now I'm just starting to read the bible as a whole, start to finish(bet you're happy to hear that ) May take awhile because I am busy and it is boring...

Well in Genesis, it says that god made day and night BEFORE he made sun and stars. How is that? The sun makes it day.

How is it that it says that god made animals then made humans. But then it gos to say the "lord" god made animal after humans because he didn't want us to be alone?

How come god made both men and woman, at the same time. Then later women are created from the rib of a man?

It says we are created in GODs image, so in his image we should be perfect. You keep saying that we are not, because of our free will to sin. "In gods image" seems he knew we would sin.

Why does it go from God, to LORD God? Did the writers change and that's why the story is contradicted? How do you know what tale to believe?

(January 15, 2014 at 10:07 am)Godschild Wrote: I'm telling you what God says, we will understand God's plan and why His justice reigns. God says we will not miss those lost to eternal punishment, God plan is for those in heaven to be eternally happy and at peace. Now that you have me thinking about it, those going to eternal punishment will probably be allowed to miss those in heaven, part of the punishment. If missing loved ones is part of eternal punishment it can't be part of eternal life in heaven.

Why are people not to be sad? No, free will is what it is a decision, though the decision can result in sadness or happiness.

I'm going to hell,as you think. So my family will miss me. They will know I will be punished for something as simple as not believing. They will probably prey for my forgiveness but it won't happen because god thinks I am hopeless. So there will be no happiness.
You really think that if one of your family members/or close friends goes to hell that you won't feel worried for them?
You sad people can't be sad in heaven, it is everlasting happiness and peace.

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After reading Eve "sinning" it seems like they didn't have free will till they ate the fruit and realized that they where naked. They gain knowledge and awareness, which seems like free will. They will learn of good and evil, which is a choice from free will. They were doing what they were told, God told them not to eat the tree, but the serpent told Eve it was ok too, so she did.
So did god create the serpent? Did he make it evil?

(December 23, 2013 at 11:12 am)StoryBook Wrote: Why would god make so many mistakes if he is the all powerful creator?

What mistakes would those be? If you mean the suffering and death aspect of life that can be set up as an arena into which intelligent beings such as humans can have freedom of will. So that's not really a mistake it's something that was deliberately done.

Quote:He made humans and everything and gave us all sin? Why?

If you give something that finite and limited freewill then it will end up with flaws. But God has accounted for this through the atoning grace of the Christ so it's all fine and good. You can have your cake and eat it this way. You have to love it when a plan comes together like this.

Quote:He made all humans, so he made some gay. Why does he frown upon what he made?

Even if you want to say homosexuality is a sin everyone is a sinner anyway and we've all been accepted/forgiven by God regardless therefore homosexuality or sex before marriage or whatever you get up is fine, it's just what you do as a flawed human. I know it says homosexuality is a sin in Leviticus but you won't find many Jews or Christians who uphold everything it says in that particular book of the Torah/Bible. Call it cherry picking but this isn't the bronze age.

Quote:He knows all, so wouldn’t he know that we would torture and kill his “son”?

Jesus knew that he was going to be betrayed and killed in advance see the last supper and the Garden of Gethsemane. Not only did Jesus know what was going to happen he was as a human greatly distressed by it. Jesus was also God in some mysterious sense so course God knew that Jesus would die if Jesus did. You can see how it flows together.

Quote:He made humans so why did his son have to be born and not created?

Jesus as part of God/Trinity was never created though God to be visibly manifest in hum,an life had to be born through the womb of the virgin. If he was born that particular way but the same concept applies regardless of his Earthly/physical origins.

Quote:Why would god make the devil just to have fun taunting and tempting us?

Satan if he literally exists and isn't a metaphor for human sin would be an arch angel and apparently angels like humans have the free will, or at least they can deliberately sever themselves from God to have their own freewill. Humans can have freedom of will without being severed from God as to sever yourself from God eternally is what we would call Hell. Hell isn't a place you necessarily get sent to as a punishment. In Revelation Satan does get thrown into a lake of eternal fire along with the Anti-Christ and his followers after the Armageddon/the end of the universe but that isn't necessarily the same thing as Hell. Notice when Satan tempts Jesus in the desert he's still roaming around free.

(January 15, 2014 at 3:39 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

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(December 23, 2013 at 11:12 am)StoryBook Wrote: Why would god make so many mistakes if he is the all powerful creator?

What mistakes would those be? If you mean the suffering and death aspect of life that can be set up as an arena into which intelligent beings such as humans can have freedom of will. So that's not really a mistake it's something that was deliberately done.

Quote:He made humans and everything and gave us all sin? Why?

If you give something that finite and limited freewill then it will end up with flaws. But God has accounted for this through the atoning grace of the Christ so it's all fine and good. You can have your cake and eat it this way. You have to love it when a plan comes together like this.

Quote:He made all humans, so he made some gay. Why does he frown upon what he made?

Even if you want to say homosexuality is a sin everyone is a sinner anyway and we've all been accepted/forgiven by God regardless therefore homosexuality or sex before marriage or whatever you get up is fine, it's just what you do as a flawed human. I know it says homosexuality is a sin in Leviticus but you won't find many Jews or Christians who uphold everything it says in that particular book of the Torah/Bible. Call it cherry picking but this isn't the bronze age.

Quote:He knows all, so wouldn’t he know that we would torture and kill his “son”?

Jesus knew that he was going to be betrayed and killed in advance see the last supper and the Garden of Gethsemane. Not only did Jesus know what was going to happen he was as a human greatly distressed by it. Jesus was also God in some mysterious sense so course God knew that Jesus would die if Jesus did. You can see how it flows together.

Quote:He made humans so why did his son have to be born and not created?

Jesus as part of God/Trinity was never created though God to be visibly manifest in hum,an life had to be born through the womb of the virgin. If he was born that particular way but the same concept applies regardless of his Earthly/physical origins.

Quote:Why would god make the devil just to have fun taunting and tempting us?

Satan if he literally exists and isn't a metaphor for human sin would be an arch angel and apparently angels like humans have the free will, or at least they can deliberately sever themselves from God to have their own freewill. Humans can have freedom of will without being severed from God as to sever yourself from God eternally is what we would call Hell. Hell isn't a place you necessarily get sent to as a punishment. In Revelation Satan does get thrown into a lake of eternal fire along with the Anti-Christ and his followers after the Armageddon/the end of the universe but that isn't necessarily the same thing as Hell. Notice when Satan tempts Jesus in the desert he's still roaming around free.

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You sure have an interesting way of looking at it.

So you don't fully believe the bible?