(January 14, 2014 at 9:24 pm)Avodaiah Wrote:

(January 14, 2014 at 9:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: And then seeing how poorly giving someone free will goes, when you're as much of a control freak as Yahweh is, he still gave it to humans. This deity isn't very smart.

Maybe God has a reason for doing it that we don't know? That would make Him smarter than us, not dumber.
If God really does exist, we would expect Him to be this way, wouldn't we?

Well unless he comes down and explains just what he's doing, he seems more like some insane person who doesn't know what he's doing. He wants followers, but won't show himself to anyone anymore. He wants to give us free will, but kills people for doing things that come natural to us, sometimes in ways that are just as destructive to his followers as anyone else. If there's no coherence in what he's doing, then it just makes him look bad and doesn't really teach us anything beyond blind obedience.

Quote:What do you have against Pentecostal Churches?

They are batshit fucking crazy.

(January 14, 2014 at 9:24 pm)Avodaiah Wrote:

(January 14, 2014 at 9:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: And then seeing how poorly giving someone free will goes, when you're as much of a control freak as Yahweh is, he still gave it to humans. This deity isn't very smart.

Maybe God has a reason for doing it that we don't know? That would make Him smarter than us, not dumber.

No, that would make God's reason different from ours, not better or worse. Whether it is in fact smarter depends critically on what those reasons are. If God's reasons regarding the rebellion are as quality as those given to Job, being "mysterious" need never enter into it. He's just a crazy, egomaniacal asshole, whom today's children of five are eminently superior to in character and ethics. Moreover, this still doesn't explain why the 1/3 who rebelled are still being punished for making a decision which was not freely chosen. Vindictive asshole and apparently hadn't invented basic logic by that point in "non-time".

(January 14, 2014 at 9:24 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: If God really does exist, we would expect Him to be this way, wouldn't we?

Funny how that doesn't actually resolve the problem, but is immensely convenient for you when your usual "I know God's intentions" style of apologetic fails you. I wonder why that is?

(January 14, 2014 at 7:25 pm)It Is i Wrote:

(January 14, 2014 at 7:22 pm)Godschild Wrote: What does being religious have to do with angels and demons.

GC

Religion lends credence to such delusions.

I've seen drunks who thought they had seen demons, so your point does not hold.

GC

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(January 14, 2014 at 7:32 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Angels and demons are part of some religions. Why would you ask that kind of question?

Being religious in itself has nothing to do with demons and angels, it is a way of life that doesn't require either.

GC

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(January 14, 2014 at 8:54 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(January 14, 2014 at 6:27 pm)Godschild Wrote: So far you've done a good job ignoring us.

GC

Here's a question.

If I remember my bible (it's been some time since I read it), humans were given free will. angels weren't.

If that's the case how could angels rebel?

Angels had and have free will, there is nothing in scriptures to suggest otherwise.

GC

Angels can't have had too much free will. That goes against yahweh's views that you should do everything he says all the time, and any deviation from that is deserving of death. There are some unfortunate implications when it comes to worshiping god and getting to "paradise".

I was raised to believe in demons, but it got harder and harder the more I learned about neurological disorders and probability to attribute 'possession' and bad luck to them. When I no longer had anything for them to do, I looked into the case studies and found none of them sufficiently robust to rule out organic or psychological problems or simple trickery and theater. So I don't believe they are real anymore, except for the personal ones, I suppose.

(January 15, 2014 at 1:04 am)rasetsu Wrote:

(January 14, 2014 at 9:24 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: Maybe God has a reason for doing it that we don't know? That would make Him smarter than us, not dumber.

No, that would make God's reason different from ours, not better or worse. Whether it is in fact smarter depends critically on what those reasons are. If God's reasons regarding the rebellion are as quality as those given to Job, being "mysterious" need never enter into it. He's just a crazy, egomaniacal asshole, whom today's children of five are eminently superior to in character and ethics. Moreover, this still doesn't explain why the 1/3 who rebelled are still being punished for making a decision which was not freely chosen. Vindictive asshole and apparently hadn't invented basic logic by that point in "non-time".

(January 14, 2014 at 9:24 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: If God really does exist, we would expect Him to be this way, wouldn't we?

Funny how that doesn't actually resolve the problem, but is immensely convenient for you when your usual "I know God's intentions" style of apologetic fails you. I wonder why that is?

I never claim to know God's intentions. In fact, by calling God a "vindictive asshole" and morally inferior to "today's children of five", it is you who are presuming God's intentions. You're saying that God is in the wrong, but you give no other reason than that God's actions do not make sense to you. But why would they? He's God, and we're not.

Well we can say they're wrong because most people in the civilized world believes that some of them are wrong. Including the wonderful christian nation of USA. After all, slavery, genocide, and rape are illegal. The former two are encouraged by him, and the latter is condoned in a couple of circumstances. "My ways are not your ways" won't hold up in court in a country that's predominantly christian.

(January 8, 2014 at 12:11 pm)Insanity Wrote: I was wondering if any of our members believe that demons exist. I'd be fascinated to hear what you believe about them if you do. If you don't believe in demons but believe in God then I'm also interested in why not.

If there is a spiritual or non-physical dimension inhabited by intelligent non-physical then some will pleasant and friendly and others will be evil and generally unpleasant much like humans, only these beings would be greatly more powerful and akin to the classical gods. You can the evil spirits/entities demons but they would be some kind of Lovecraftian inter-dimensional horror rather the medieval depiction which as are a little dated. There are some interesting historical accounts of demonic possession, there is even an account of an entire nunnery being taken over by one but I try to keep an open mind on possible natural explanations.

(January 15, 2014 at 4:28 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: I never claim to know God's intentions. In fact, by calling God a "vindictive asshole" and morally inferior to "today's children of five", it is you who are presuming God's intentions. You're saying that God is in the wrong, but you give no other reason than that God's actions do not make sense to you. But why would they? He's God, and we're not.

Those were conditional statements, so no, I wasn't judging. I said 'if' God's reasons were the same as those given to Job, which you repeat almost verbatim by saying "He's god and you're not," then yes we can judge them, because those aren't valid reasons for explaining why God did what he did to Job. That's equivalent to me shooting your dog, and when you ask why, I reply "because I can." If God's answer is only "because I'm God," then I don't need to know more to judge him. If he has other reasons than this, you haven't presented them. Matter of fact, you are claiming to know God's reasons by implying they are beyond my comprehension. How would you know this? You wouldn't. Perhaps God's real reason for the genocide of the flood was, "I was pissed at an angel, and needed to take it out on someone." You can't have it both ways. Either you don't know God's meanings, in which case you can't say they are beyond my comprehension, because you don't know; or you claim to know God's intentions well enough to imply that they are beyond my comprehension. You would at least need to know something about God's thinking just to make either statement. So no, your dodge doesn't work because it's essentially a lie; if you truly don't understand the intentions of your God, then you're in no position to say they aren't comprehensible because you just don't know.

You're trying to play both sides of the "knowing God's intentions" quandary at the same time, and it doesn't work. Either you don't know, and must be silent. Or you do know, which makes your claim that you don't pretend to know God's intention a lie. You didn't keep silent, so that makes you a liar.

You don't get to play God's lawyer and then claim you know nothing about the details of the case.