(March 1, 2010 at 4:02 pm)Tsidkenu Wrote:

(March 1, 2010 at 3:49 pm)Thor Wrote: There is no reason to think that the universe hasn't always existed in some form. What reason do you have to think that the universe came into being magically? You think there was no universe at all and then, suddenly, POOF! it came into existence?

yes, all scientific evidence point toward this scenario.

Incorrect. Scientific evidence only leads to the postulation of a big bang occurring - it does not indicate that there was nothingness before - merely that there was a superdense point in a non space.

Uncertainty is a bitch.

(March 1, 2010 at 4:02 pm)Tsidkenu Wrote:

(March 1, 2010 at 3:49 pm)Thor Wrote:

(March 1, 2010 at 2:36 pm)Tsidkenu Wrote:

(March 1, 2010 at 10:38 am)Thor Wrote: We have evidence that the universe began to expand at some point. The universe itself has always existed. It did not have a "cause".

absolute assertions request proves. do you have any ?

There is no reason to think that the universe hasn't always existed in some form. What reason do you have to think that the universe came into being magically? You think there was no universe at all and then, suddenly, POOF! it came into existence?

yes, all scientific evidence point toward this scenario.

You have a very bizarre understanding of physics if you think there is any evidence to suggest this. Given that the universe (as it is currently) started expanding at the moment of the Big Bang, and that all laws that govern this universe are only applicable within the universe itself, we cannot assume they work when considering the universe as a whole, nor can we assume they worked prior to the Big Bang (if indeed there is such a thing as "prior" to that event). The earliest possible event we can reliably determine then, is the Big Bang, the expansion. Whether there was a creation event before this is unknown, and remains unknown due to the nature of that expansion, and the laws that followed it.

Coincidentally, no-matter what we assume about the laws of the universe (i.e. whether they existed prior to the Big Bang or not), you cannot rule out the possibility of the universe always having existed in some form. To elaborate:

If we assume the laws that currently govern the universe had always done so, then the timeless state of the universe prior to the Big Bang allows for the universe to have existed in some form for eternity, given that there was no "first" event (as there was no time).

Alternatively, if we assume the current laws did not govern the universe prior to the Big Bang, then there is nothing preventing the universe from suddenly springing into existence, or always existing in some form, since there are no laws to violate in this instance.

(March 1, 2010 at 10:38 am)Thor Wrote:

(February 28, 2010 at 1:33 pm)Watson Wrote: The attribute of love is something which is simplistic in nature, but vast in scope and meaning. When I look around and see that the world is here, that I understand it, that i have the power to do what I will within it, I can think of no other reason for it's existence than that of love.

The Earth exists because of "love"? Oh, gag me! Does the planet Uranus also exist because of "love"? What about Alpha Centauri? Halley's Comet? Black holes, asteroids and quasars? Did that meteor that crashed into the planet 65 million years ago also exist because of "love"?

If you understood anything about love at all, you'd know that the answer to every one of those questions is a resounding 'YES.' I heard it said on this forum, it might have been by you, I don't really recall, that doubt is the most powerful driving force in this world. That is bull. Love is the most powerful driving force in this world, I can assure you.

Quote:

(February 28, 2010 at 4:58 pm)Watson Wrote: You're just idiotically taking the Bible literally and spewing bullshit because of it.

Just like a Creationist!

No duh? The Bible can be taken in ridiculous, literal contexts on both sides?!

(March 2, 2010 at 1:02 pm)Watson Wrote: If you understood anything about love at all, you'd know that the answer to every one of those questions is a resounding 'YES.' I heard it said on this forum, it might have been by you, I don't really recall, that doubt is the most powerful driving force in this world. That is bull. Love is the most powerful driving force in this world, I can assure you.

"If you understood anything about love at all".

Your self-righteous BS is really wearing thin. Go ahead, assure me that love is the most powerful driving force in the world. It is love that created computers, modern medicine, globalization, every single scientific discovery ever, and continues to provide for us with a sense of rationality and reason, correct?

It's hilarious that you of all people would go around telling people they don't understand love.


BTW, are you 16, or am I thinking of someone else?

(February 28, 2010 at 4:58 pm)Watson Wrote: No duh? The Bible can be taken in ridiculous, literal contexts on both sides?!

What's even more ridiculous is acknowledging the fact that it's BS, then still believing that it could have happened based on the implied nature of an invisible sky daddy.

(March 2, 2010 at 1:17 pm)tavarish Wrote: "If you understood anything about love at all".

Your self-righteous BS is really wearing thin. Go ahead, assure me that love is the most powerful driving force in the world. It is love that created computers, modern medicine, globalization, every single scientific discovery ever, and continues to provide for us with a sense of rationality and reason, correct?

Do you think that the inventor of computers, such a useful invention that serves us extraordinarily well even today, would have even bothered if he didn't love his own species, you know, us on some level? Would those who invested time and effort into comin gup with better medincine and practice and care for the sick have ever done so if they did not love the people they were attempting to heal? Would those scientific discoveries have even been worth it to the people making them if they didn't give a flying fuck and didn't love society?

Seriously, are you fucking deranged?

Quote:It's hilarious that you of all people would go around telling people they don't understand love.
BTW, are you 16, or am I thinking of someone else?

Wsidom is not a gift of age. Nor is love.

(March 2, 2010 at 1:56 pm)Watson Wrote: Do you think that the inventor of computers, such a useful invention that serves us extraordinarily well even today, would have even bothered if he didn't love his own species, you know, us on some level? Would those who invested time and effort into comin gup with better medincine and practice and care for the sick have ever done so if they did not love the people they were attempting to heal? Would those scientific discoveries have even been worth it to the people making them if they didn't give a flying fuck and didn't love society?

Seriously, are you fucking deranged?

You don't have to love society to make a scientific discovery. You also don't have to love your species to invent a computer. Was the atom bomb a product of love? How about the H-bomb?

The innate need to retain species survivability is not love, it is a mechanism forged through evolution. We have a sanctity of life because it's subjectively moral to do so and retains certain favorable aspects of the species. Love plays a role in life, but it is by no means the main underlying reason of everything we have accomplished. "Giving a fuck about" and "loving" are two different things. Acknowledgment and acceptance do not equal love. Care and general concern do not equal love.

(March 2, 2010 at 1:56 pm)Watson Wrote: Wsidom is not a gift of age. Nor is love.

I'll challenge that. Wisdom is a trait that is heavily dependent on life experience and perspective, something you are not likely to have at a young age, especially as you are still developing physically and emotionally. If you are the 16 year old, I find it absolutely ridiculous that you're giving people pep talks about what you think love is.

(March 2, 2010 at 1:56 pm)Watson Wrote: Wisdom is not a gift of age. Nor is love.

Tell that to any 16 year old and they will gladly agree with you.

Tell that to those same people 5 years later and not one of them will agree with you.

We've all been there, we've all been 16 (well, I think most of us here anyway). We've all been that arrogant, that sure of the world, that we "know" it all. It ain't true, and I know you won't believe me now, but give it 5 years and you'll come around

Watson,

What is love? Can you prove that it is anything but a label we affix to mutual need? If that is all that love is then God needs us as much as we need him.

Or maybe He is the intercessory force between us and the Invisible *Pink* Unicorn(BBHH) who lives in that supra-trancedental place where she created God and allows him to believe he does everything. We know She is invisible because we can't see Her (science), we know She is *Pink* because of the faith that lives in our hearts (religion). The IPU is the perfect marriage between science and religion. You think the IPU is *tiny bubbles* like you? Now is the time for *dancing* with the *campers*!

If you understood what *Pink* was, you would find the idea of God laughable.

Rhizo

*no accurate translation in this universe*

PS yes I know what the websites might say about the IPU(BBHH) but they don't know the esoteric meaning behind the ontological reality that is the Invisible *Pink* Unicorn. You have to have played Star Control II to truely understand. It is available for free here: http://sc2.sourceforge.net/downloads.php

Oh, yes...tell us more about your 'loving' god.


Numbers 21

Quote:4 They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea, [c] to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; 5 they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the desert? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!"

6 Then the LORD sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, "We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us." So Moses prayed for the people.

(March 2, 2010 at 1:02 pm)Watson Wrote: If you understood anything about love at all, you'd know that the answer to every one of those questions is a resounding 'YES.' I heard it said on this forum, it might have been by you, I don't really recall, that doubt is the most powerful driving force in this world. That is bull. Love is the most powerful driving force in this world, I can assure you.

"Love " created the Earth? And your evidence for this claim is.......?