Ok, so I'm thinking about it, and it's pretty ironic that the religious figures who Joan of Arc said she spoke to are of the same faith that sold her and burned her at the stake. A few years later, the Pope said "woops, my bad" and made her a saint and martyr.

Also, were her actions any more or less valid because she said she had divine intervention?

(March 10, 2010 at 1:28 pm)tavarish Wrote: Ok, so I'm thinking about it, and it's pretty ironic that the religious figures who Joan of Arc said she spoke to are of the same faith that sold her and burned her at the stake. A few years later, the Pope said "woops, my bad" and made her a saint and martyr.

Also, were her actions any more or less valid because she said she had divine intervention?

Have long been fascinated by Joan D'Arc. I wrote a paper about her at university,in which I also looked at Eva Peron. My prime source on Joan was Marina Warner's ' Joan Of Arc;The Image Of Female Heroism'.

To understand the myth it's necessary to understand the time and place. My view is Joan was possibly a quite bright,possibly obsessed or demented young woman who was manipulated by vested interests. She was ruthlessly murdered when she became an embarrassment.

Joan was executed in 1431. She was retried by the church for heresy posthumously and declared innocent in 1456. She was 'rehabilitated' as a great French symbol in the early C19th. She was not canonised by The Catholic church (declared a saint) until 1920.


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Quote:Joan of Arc: the Image of Female Heroism by Marina Warner (University of California Press, 1981 ISBN 0-520-22464-7) is not so much a biography as a book about Joan of Arc or, more precisely, how she has been perceived by others over the centuries and how that perception has shaped her image.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc...le_Heroism

She was a fucking nut.

I'm going to kill my neighbor's dog by making him eat a live firecracker.

Then in about 20 years I'll say "it probably wasn't the best course of action" and paint his picture on a window.

Religion definitely has its shit together.

She was put in charge of the French army at what... 18/ 19? Overnight the long standing Anglo-French conflict became a 'religious' war. After first the French checked out her credentials enough that they were confident they could justify her religiosity. Of course the trial was a fix. She was a believer. Her subsequent canonisation was no surprise.

(March 10, 2010 at 1:28 pm)tavarish Wrote: Ok, so I'm thinking about it, and it's pretty ironic that the religious figures who Joan of Arc said she spoke to are of the same faith that sold her and burned her at the stake. A few years later, the Pope said "woops, my bad" and made her a saint and martyr.

Also, were her actions any more or less valid because she said she had divine intervention?

Keep toking, Thumper.

(March 10, 2010 at 2:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: She was a fucking nut.

Yes, she was most likely mentally ill, but despite that, she managed to save France.

Quote:Ok, so I'm thinking about it, and it's pretty ironic that the religious figures who Joan of Arc said she spoke to are of the same faith that sold her and burned her at the stake. A few years later, the Pope said "woops, my bad" and made her a saint and martyr.

Yes. That happens all the time. Any time some famous Christian deviates from the norms of their faith, they are condemned by the church, but when they become famous, the Church ends up adopting them as one of their own.

Incidentally, while we're on the subject of Joan of Arc, I would highly recommend that virtually everybody watch Dreyer's Passion of Joan of Arc. You may have to pay far out of the ass for the DVD, but if you're skeptical about the price, the movie is currently available in full on YouTube. It is simply amazing and you really don't have to be religious to appreciate this movie.

Quote:Overnight the long standing Anglo-French conflict became a 'religious' war.

Well...both sides were 'christian'...not that that ever stopped anyone from cleaving someone's head with an axe. This was the century before Luther....and Henry VIII.

France was ours dammit!!