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RE: Heroin overdose cure: It exists, but how do you get it?
February 25, 2014 at 7:15 am (This post was last modified: February 25, 2014 at 7:21 am by Psykhronic.)
Seeing as they spend all their money on drugs - yeah, they don't have the money. In any case, I'm alright with any decent attempt at slowing the spread of disease.
Keep in mind too - I live in the USA. So it's very likely the price of needles are inflated for profit.
Just checked a medical site - for 15 - 20 bucks you can get a pack of 100 needles, which is not too bad of a deal but that money is definitely going to be used by addicts to buy drugs. Let's be realistic here. Also, I don't know the deals offered offline. And remember - addicts can spread disease to non-addicts.
RE: Heroin overdose cure: It exists, but how do you get it?
February 25, 2014 at 7:29 am
(February 25, 2014 at 7:07 am)Aractus Wrote: The retail cost of a pack of needles/syringes is typically works out at around 50 cents each. The typical cost of a hit is anywhere up from $20 (and even as much as $50 just for a tenth here in Australia). Are you really saying that addicts need to be given a 50c needle because they can afford a $50+ hit, but can't afford a new 50c needle??
You can't have it both ways, dude: either the price is so low it's a non issue, or this is a prohibitive cost that nobody should have to pay. If it's the former, why do you care?
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RE: Heroin overdose cure: It exists, but how do you get it?
February 25, 2014 at 7:46 am
No, my argument is that people with medical conditions are required to buy their own needles from the pharmacy. Why should people who have a medical disorder have to buy them, and people who self-harm be given them for free?
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RE: Heroin overdose cure: It exists, but how do you get it?
February 25, 2014 at 7:52 am
(February 25, 2014 at 7:46 am)Aractus Wrote: No, my argument is that people with medical conditions are required to buy their own needles from the pharmacy. Why should people who have a medical disorder have to buy them, and people who self-harm be given them for free?
I don't think people with medical conditions should have to buy them, especially if the price is as low as you say. But at the same time, we could quell the spread of certain diseases by giving access to clean needles to those who would settle for dirty, and there's not much downside to that. Gotta be easier to turn your life around if you're not getting infected, not to mention removing a tax on the public healthcare system.
So... I guess we agree, kinda?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
RE: Heroin overdose cure: It exists, but how do you get it?
February 25, 2014 at 8:15 am
(February 25, 2014 at 7:46 am)Aractus Wrote: No, my argument is that people with medical conditions are required to buy their own needles from the pharmacy. Why should people who have a medical disorder have to buy them, and people who self-harm be given them for free?
From a purely pragmatic point of view in a country with health care, there are many good reasons. The biggest is the same ones as for free contraception. You could probably supply free needles for every addict in the country for what it would cost to treat one person with HIV.
Then there are the hidden costs. We have to keep our sharps bins in a locked compound because a full, sealed bin has a street value of about 20 quid to people who crank them to reuse.
Finally and perhaps most importantly, you're missing the significant bit of the exchange. It's not what they take away, it's what they bring back. Every infected needle they bring back to swap is one they don't drop in the street, or at the park. The public health benefits alone make it worthwhile.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
RE: Heroin overdose cure: It exists, but how do you get it?
February 25, 2014 at 8:20 am
The people who are most likely to be involved in risky behavior are given free needles because of public health.
Where I grew up we would find uncapped needles all the time. I knew not to touch them but there were a few times uncapped needles were laying around in the park where we played. Its disgusting as hell.
RE: Heroin overdose cure: It exists, but how do you get it?
February 25, 2014 at 9:08 am
We used to have someone come in and use the clinic toilets to shoot up in. Made sense, they were clean and we'll lit. I didn't have a problem with that til found a 30 gauge fixed needle insulin syringe with the needle snapped off. This is not unusual apparently as they are too fine for iv use. Of course the worry then was that the needle itself was still in the room. I spent 4 hours doing a fingertip search, of the whole room, including in all the bins, including THAT bin inside the toilet etc, looking for the damn thing. To make sure there was no chance a patient or domestic would find it the hard way. In the end we concluded that he'd taken the snapped needle with him, very possibly embedded in his arm. All because he was using a 30 g needle instead of a 23g.
That's why we need needle exchanges.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
RE: Heroin overdose cure: It exists, but how do you get it?
February 25, 2014 at 9:15 am (This post was last modified: February 25, 2014 at 9:15 am by EgoRaptor.)
(February 25, 2014 at 2:50 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote:
(February 24, 2014 at 3:34 pm)Shell B Wrote: Haha, so now I'm belligerent and obnoxious. Have fun, Creed. I'm not exactly sure what you are threatening here, but you can say whatever the fuck you want to me. You went and made this completely personal out of nowhere. If you think I'm even remotely intimidated by that post, you're as stupid as you sound. Go fuck yourself, homey.
Oh wow.
I didn't realize you were actually this incapable of debating, I thought people just called you a bitch cuz you got feisty or something.
I didn't realize it was because you enter into topics just to be a bitch and then get pissy and insulting and condescending when people express why your opinion is fucking garbage. Ya basically came in here to descend amongst others and you thought you were going to be dispensing some real words of bitchin'-fuckin'-wisdom by saying the obvious; that addicts and mental health patients should continue to receive a lower priority for treatment than non-addicts and non-mental-health patients, and that everyone would nod sagely and pat you on the ass cuz you're Mrs. AtheistForums or something, right? Not me, hood-rat [werd, homey?]. Your post was irrelevant, your entire presence in this thread so far in fact has served as little more than an incredibly obnoxious, grating distraction from the ACTUAL topics being discussed.
"You're as stupid as you sound?"
Really? I'm not the one who just completely ignored an entire post to continue being a bitch when I just told you to back the fuck off on the topic you're talking about because YOU are making it personal. I did not threaten, I warned. For a published writer, you sure seem to struggle to understand key differences in important words. I WARNED you to back off because it was hitting too close to home.
But what do you do? You then start insulting me directly. You call me stupid. Do tell me, Shelly, what bitchin' fuckin' words of brilliance have you provided so far here, huh? Cuz I don't see a fucking thing.
Quote:One person said fuck em let em die. Personal life experience should not have anything to do with the argument, obviously. It just makes idiots crazy to apply their own biases to the debate.
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THE ARGUMENT IS!! The actual argument that was taking place was that addicts shouldn't be left to die in the dirt, you took it somewhere else, then bitch me out when you don't understand why I am taking it in the context of the current discussion and not some random point that came up that wasn't even being discussed! Of course there's going to be personal biases! We're talking about shit that a lot of us have gone through! Of course we're going to apply our personal experiences to this! Of course personal biases are being applied! It's something that, get this, HAPPENS ON A SUBJECTIVE BASIS. There is no bias or unbias. You've either had experience with addiction or you don't, and if you don't, you don't get to fucking make judgment of people who don't.
Not you, and definitely not Ego, whose opinions I am finding are not so much inhuman and disgusting as much as they are just plain as ignorant of reality as most Christians are of the content of their bible, except to a far stronger, contemptible, and more brain-numbingly-retarded degree.
(February 24, 2014 at 8:08 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: I am a highly intelligent person.
You know, the louder you say it, the more we realize you're desperately trying to fool yourself.
(February 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: Yes, we should.
Please present your qualifications for making that decision. Applicants require photo ID, second form of ID, and must be 18 years of age or older.
(February 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: No, but anyone who has not majorly fucked up & gotten addicted is sitting in a seat of judgement to those that have.
Also, you may notice I have bolded a part about people who are genetically predisposed to addiction. Let those weak individuals die off, the world will be a better place for it.
Salute your flag, you nazi fuck.
(February 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: One giant ad hom. Nice job man.
Hey, I only give people what they're worth.
(February 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: I especially liked the whole woe is me thing.
Considering what comes next, this is hilarious...
(February 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: Also, I have suffered from depression my whole life. People like you are everything that is wrong with this world. Weak & expecting everyone else to take the blame for you mistakes. Suck it up.
Oh woe is you, are you really that so far up your own ass that you think your piddly little angsty emo bullshit compares to anything I've gone through? Please, little boy, don't make me laugh. You're like a maggot squirming around in pig-shit compared to me in terms of who actually holds the authority on what addiction causes, and what treating it can lead to. You're not worth the words I'm typing, but luckily for you there's plenty of people on this thread who I think are worth expressing my opinions to on this thread, and this is more for their benefit than anything, but I gotta admit, it feels good laughing this hard. I've been hard-pressed for optimism, but man, your extreme case of Unwarranted Self-Importance Syndrome (USIS) is hands down one of the funniest fucking things I've seen on this forum, and given how batshit crazy this place is, THAT'S SAYING SOMETHING.
(February 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: I care that the strong are forced to carry the weak because I don't want a society held back by the meek. The strong should not have to carry the weak, if the weak cannot carry themselves than let them fall.
On this, we agree.
When you fall, I shouldn't have to carry you. So, we agree then. I won't have to carry you.
(February 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: You know what works even better? Letting them die. That saves a lot more money.
No, actually, if you had read the link, you would know that NOT treating them and letting them die is actually far more expensive. Pay attention, dipshit, school is in session.
(February 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: Notice the bolded part, ya that is exactly what I am saying. Suck it up!
Aww, someone's projecting, isn't that precious? Mommy and daddy's little nazi darling wishes he had some valid reasons for feeling sad so he would feel like he has a reason to be strong if he overcomes it. But he doesn't, because his world is full of pillows and cushions, and he knows he's a weakling who, when he goes into the world, will be getting fed to the wolves.
You won't even move out of your parents' basement I bet.
Frankly, I'm calling troll on Ego. Anyone else agree with me?
(February 24, 2014 at 7:45 pm)Shell B Wrote: Well, you would be wrong then. I do think addicts need and should get help, but never in the stead of someone who is not ill through their own vices. Additionally, most problems addicts have can be solved by stopping. If it doesn't involve getting you to quit, I'm not helping. Maybe if you weren't so predisposed to feel the way you do, you might realize that objectivity is much more helpful than enabling. I imagine if you have lost someone to addiction, you would have already learnt that lesson.
I agree with this. Which again makes me wonder why the hell we're arguing...
In order to be treated, you need to want to be treated. If someone doesn't want to help themselves, though...there's not a lot you can do for them.
But then...I didn't want to be treated. My rehabilitation was involuntary. But it got me off the opioids. If it hadn't been imposed on me, I wouldn't be here. I probably wouldn't be alive, actually. So. Take that however you want. I'm just saying. It does actually cut me pretty deep when people are casually talking about cutting people off and leaving them to wither and rot, because I know if the people who had sent me into rehab had actually thought like that? I wouldn't be alive. It basically sounds to me like you are saying you wouldn't care if I was dead, in a very blunt, flippant manner. From Egoraptor I couldn't give a fuck less, but you, I've known at least fairly well here. Starting to see why I was finding it personal? See why I was warning you to stop?
It is pretty clear now that you can do nothing but fling insult. Pathetic.
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Pay attention, dipshit, school is in session.