(March 7, 2014 at 5:20 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(March 7, 2014 at 3:18 pm)jimmyk2190 Wrote: fine you agree with most of what is in the article then why can you not see that this will sensor atheism

You can't "censor" atheism. Atheism is an idea; a lack of belief. It exists whether governments make laws about it or not.

What you can do is censor atheists themselves; that is, prevent them from spreading atheism in public. However, that is not what is happening here. Nothing in the idea of atheism is inherently anti-religious. You can be an atheist without breaking this law. You can

Quote:yes but what about the sale of book by authors such as dawkins and hitchins you know in the eu antiislamic films and books are banned in schools and on the shelves

None of those things are making atheism illegal, which is what you claimed in the title.

Quote:also secular television programs may be banned idk

Go look up the word "secular" and you'll know why this claim is bullshit as well. Secularism is the separation of church and state. Nothing to do with atheism, nothing to do with insulting religion or religious groups.

Quote:also websites like this could be sensored for promoting hate speech. This does not sound like science fiction to me

We don't promote hate speech. We don't ban it, but that's because the community supports freedom of speech. If the site was threatened by any law that restricted freedom of speech, we would simply move the server to the US.

perhaps perhaps not but what you can do is punish public expressions of secularism and ban atheistic liturature

(March 7, 2014 at 5:32 pm)jimmyk2190 Wrote: mabey so but secular may be interpreted as an agressive form of speech towards religion.

I doubt it. There's no evidence to support that. Like I said before, secularism is about the separation of church and state; it's not about atheism. The Executive Director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ.

jimmyk2190 Wrote:Also here in the us most people see the founding fathers as religious people not deists or atheists. So it could happen

That's because most of them were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_F...s#Religion

Quote:Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

jimmyk2190 Wrote:the founders of america had a dream of free and equal people unopressed by religion and that vision has been obliterated

There are countries in the world where you can be killed for being an atheist, or a Christian. That is not the case in the US, so I call bullshit on the whole "obliterated" language.

(March 7, 2014 at 7:30 pm)jimmyk2190 Wrote: perhaps perhaps not but what you can do is punish public expressions of secularism and ban atheistic liturature

Which makes no sense given the actual content of the law. Nothing in the law states that atheist books can be banned. All it says is that ridiculing religious groups could be banned. Whilst I agree that that kind of censorship is bad, it isn't the same as a complete ban of atheist materials, nor is it the same as making atheism illegal.

(March 7, 2014 at 8:39 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(March 7, 2014 at 5:32 pm)jimmyk2190 Wrote: mabey so but secular may be interpreted as an agressive form of speech towards religion.

I doubt it. There's no evidence to support that. Like I said before, secularism is about the separation of church and state; it's not about atheism. The Executive Director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ.

jimmyk2190 Wrote:Also here in the us most people see the founding fathers as religious people not deists or atheists. So it could happen

That's because most of them were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_F...s#Religion

Quote:Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

jimmyk2190 Wrote:the founders of america had a dream of free and equal people unopressed by religion and that vision has been obliterated

There are countries in the world where you can be killed for being an atheist, or a Christian. That is not the case in the US, so I call bullshit on the whole "obliterated" language.

(March 7, 2014 at 7:30 pm)jimmyk2190 Wrote: perhaps perhaps not but what you can do is punish public expressions of secularism and ban atheistic liturature

Which makes no sense given the actual content of the law. Nothing in the law states that atheist books can be banned. All it says is that ridiculing religious groups could be banned. Whilst I agree that that kind of censorship is bad, it isn't the same as a complete ban of atheist materials, nor is it the same as making atheism illegal.

nobody is suggesting that people will be put to death as in saudi arabia but the status quo in america is in favor of religion is it not

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(March 7, 2014 at 9:19 pm)jimmyk2190 Wrote:

(March 7, 2014 at 8:39 pm)Tiberius Wrote: I doubt it. There's no evidence to support that. Like I said before, secularism is about the separation of church and state; it's not about atheism. The Executive Director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ.

That's because most of them were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_F...s#Religion

There are countries in the world where you can be killed for being an atheist, or a Christian. That is not the case in the US, so I call bullshit on the whole "obliterated" language.
Which makes no sense given the actual content of the law. Nothing in the law states that atheist books can be banned. All it says is that ridiculing religious groups could be banned. Whilst I agree that that kind of censorship is bad, it isn't the same as a complete ban of atheist materials, nor is it the same as making atheism illegal.

nobody is suggesting that people will be put to death as in saudi arabia but the status quo in america is in favor of religion is it not

when i posted this i was talking about europe and therefore referring to western values no middle eastern

I suppose one must choose between one of two prisons...religion or actual prison. :/

(March 8, 2014 at 12:30 am)Deidre32 Wrote: I suppose one must choose between one of two prisons...religion or actual prison. :/

this wouldn't even be a problem is sociology and political correctness were removed from the education systems in the west.

(March 7, 2014 at 10:55 am)xpastor Wrote:

(March 6, 2014 at 10:17 pm)jimmyk2190 Wrote: http://www.avoiceformen.com/suggested-re...st-speech/
the bill band any type of speech that is anti religious that is ( antichristian, anti islamic, there are other provisions in the bill but people who violate these clauses can be severely punished and anybody who is against organized religion should read this Immediately. This very much makes atheism an illegal practice even though religious people ask the question then what do you believe ?

The article you cite is mostly an anti-feminist rant. It is totally fucking hysterical.

The member states of the EU are by and large one hell of a lot more secular than the USA.

Yeah, I had to stop reading after this part:

Quote:...so holding feminists to ridicule, as they deserve, will now be a crime.

How lovely.

I see the obvious difference between banning atheism and banning the slandering of religious beliefs has already been pointed out. One could argue that screaming "Mohammed was a pedophile" in some places would be akin to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, generally not beneficial to public safety.

The only way you could 'ban atheism' would be if you could some how enforce people's maintenance of belief in at least one god. Weird idea.

(March 8, 2014 at 1:24 pm)whateverist Wrote: I see the obvious difference between banning atheism and banning the slandering of religious beliefs has already been pointed out. One could argue that screaming "Mohammed was a pedophile" in some places would be akin to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, generally not beneficial to public safety.

The only way you could 'ban atheism' would be if you could some how enforce people's maintenance of belief in at least one god. Weird idea.

i see your point but this distinction will not be made

(March 8, 2014 at 12:01 pm)jimmyk2190 Wrote:

(March 8, 2014 at 12:30 am)Deidre32 Wrote: I suppose one must choose between one of two prisons...religion or actual prison. :/

this wouldn't even be a problem is sociology and political correctness were removed from the education systems in the west.

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not following what you mean here?

(March 8, 2014 at 2:28 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(March 8, 2014 at 12:01 pm)jimmyk2190 Wrote: this wouldn't even be a problem is sociology and political correctness were removed from the education systems in the west.

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not following what you mean here?

the hate speech laws ban any intolerant speech towards any type of religion. Sociology teaches people to be tolerany of one another and not to be racist not only is it a wate of time but it is harmful to society. This is why atheism will be illegal