(March 11, 2014 at 11:56 am)Bad Writer Wrote: Shhhh! You're going to blow this poor fellow's mind!

I have a feeling that could be done with an errant sneeze.

(March 10, 2014 at 10:26 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Not that you believe, but let's just say that you lived and witness Jesus as He is described in Scripture. Out of curiosity, you listened to Him speak, you saw him heal, you witnessed the miracles, etc. How would you of reacted?

I'd have been impressed. Our issue is not that Jesus would not have been impressive if he really performed miracles. It's that stories of people who perform miracles are a dime a dozen, and on close investigation they always turn out to be hoaxes or to have natural explanations. The issue is why should we think of the third-hand stories of Jesus as true when we don't think any of the others are?

If you lived in Victorian England, would you believe Spring-heeled Jack was real?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring-heeled_Jack

Quote:Spring-heeled Jack is an entity in English folklore of the Victorian era. The first claimed sighting of Spring-heeled Jack was in 1837.[1] Later sightings were reported all over Great Britain and were especially prevalent in suburban London, the Midlands and Scotland.[2]
There are many theories about the nature and identity of Spring-heeled Jack. This urban legend was very popular in its time, due to the tales of his bizarre appearance and ability to make extraordinary leaps, to the point that he became the topic of several works of fiction.
Spring-heeled Jack was described by people who claimed to have seen him as having a terrifying and frightful appearance, with diabolical physiognomy, clawed hands, and eyes that "resembled red balls of fire". One report claimed that, beneath a black cloak, he wore a helmet and a tight-fitting white garment like an oilskin. Many stories also mention a "Devil-like" aspect. Others said he was tall and thin, with the appearance of a gentleman. Several reports mention that he could breathe out blue and white flames and that he wore sharp metallic claws at his fingertips. At least two people claimed that he was able to speak comprehensible English.

Your Jesus myth is just Spring-heeled Jack with better marketing and more legs.

If I seen him heal people, I would have been like, "Hell yea!" I woulda praised that son'bitch for eternity. These guys are so funny. Well, I'd be a bit skeptical.. I seen some magician put a needle through his arm.. did you see a dead guy raised to life? You would have believed because of being less than educated? You need an education to be retarded?? But none of this happened.. so it doesn't matter. "I've known him for 20 years as a blind man.. now he's seeing.. this trickster really walked into a perfect scenerio."

I've heard of Spring-heeled Jack before, in an old book I read, IIRC.

(March 10, 2014 at 10:26 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Not that you believe, but let's just say that you lived and witness Jesus as He is described in Scripture. Out of curiosity, you listened to Him speak, you saw him heal, you witnessed the miracles, etc. How would you of reacted?

Depends how I had been raised.

Since, at the time, people were a lot more superstitious than they are now, and also a lot less educated, I'd probably be forced to believe because I didn't know any better.

If I met Jesus:

"So - you Jesus?"
"Yes"
"Just healed that leper?"
"That was me."
"What about the rest of them then? You just going to do the one? Thought you were the son of God. How about doing a real miracle - you know - something actually fucking useful that brings widespread benefit instead of handing out miracles to individuals like they're costing you something. Right now you're running a distant second to David Copperfield, frankly, and I ain't worshipping his ass either!"

(March 11, 2014 at 11:30 am)Fromper Wrote:

(March 11, 2014 at 11:20 am)Revelation777 Wrote: How can you say as a matter of fact that there was no miracles back then? I gave the question as a hypothetical as if there were indeed true miracles how you would of responded to Him.

How can you say that there were miracles back then? The wording of the first post in the thread didn't act like you were treating the miracles as a hypothetical. You acted like they were an assumption. They're not.

You're pretty much asking, "If there was proof of God's existence, would you believe in God's existence?" This isn't a yes or no question. It's a loaded question with only one correct answer. And until there is such proof, either for God's existence or that there were true miracles 2000 years ago, then the question of how to treat that proof isn't even worth discussing.

I didn't ask "If there was proof of God's existence, would you believe in God's existence?" Rather, if there was a Jesus who indeed was performing real miracles how would you respond to that?

---

(March 11, 2014 at 12:53 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: If you lived in Victorian England, would you believe Spring-heeled Jack was real?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring-heeled_Jack

Quote:Spring-heeled Jack is an entity in English folklore of the Victorian era. The first claimed sighting of Spring-heeled Jack was in 1837.[1] Later sightings were reported all over Great Britain and were especially prevalent in suburban London, the Midlands and Scotland.[2]
There are many theories about the nature and identity of Spring-heeled Jack. This urban legend was very popular in its time, due to the tales of his bizarre appearance and ability to make extraordinary leaps, to the point that he became the topic of several works of fiction.
Spring-heeled Jack was described by people who claimed to have seen him as having a terrifying and frightful appearance, with diabolical physiognomy, clawed hands, and eyes that "resembled red balls of fire". One report claimed that, beneath a black cloak, he wore a helmet and a tight-fitting white garment like an oilskin. Many stories also mention a "Devil-like" aspect. Others said he was tall and thin, with the appearance of a gentleman. Several reports mention that he could breathe out blue and white flames and that he wore sharp metallic claws at his fingertips. At least two people claimed that he was able to speak comprehensible English.

Your Jesus myth is just Spring-heeled Jack with better marketing and more legs.

As far as I know "Spring-healed Jack" didn't turn the world upside down. Doesn't have countless books and songs written about him. Doesn't have millions if not billions of true followers. Doesn't have people who sacrificed their lives because of him. Just my thoughts.

(March 12, 2014 at 10:28 am)Revelation777 Wrote: As far as I know "Spring-healed Jack" didn't turn the world upside down. Doesn't have countless books and songs written about him. Doesn't have millions if not billions of true followers. Doesn't have people who sacrificed their lives because of him. Just my thoughts.

Mohamed turned the world upside down and you don't follow Allah. Many songs and books written. Billions of followers. Countless "martyrs" died for the cause.

All in all just an argument from popularity. If Britney sells a million records, does that make her music good? Really, your arguments have been slaughtered before.

But there is one thing you theists could produce that might convince the unbeliever....

All that is missing is evidence your god boy is divine. Got any?

And those are just my thoughts.