I gotta say that I agree with Napoleon...because he's right.

(March 14, 2014 at 8:22 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Anyone who seriously sits there and thinks "I know god exists" is either being intellectually dishonest with themselves or downright brainwashed beyond all comprehension.

Not necessarily. Lots of people have personal experiences that, for them, proves that something exists. Whether it be god, or bigfoot, or aliens, or ghosts, etc.

In normal life I usually tell theists that I'm agnostic. I tell atheists that I'm agnostic atheist. An agnostic atheist is the belief most people think of when they think agnostic. When you say atheist they think strong atheist.

If they asked what it meant, which no one has, I would just say it means I don't know. But that's because I don't really feel like arguing about stupid shit in real life.

(March 14, 2014 at 8:24 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(March 13, 2014 at 8:00 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Curious, how you define it for yourself?

As I understand it, it means that you do not know. In that sense pretty much everyone is agnostic. Or insane.

I took the label at the very beginning when I decided to abandon religion, but to me the term seems to indicate that I was seeking answers. The atheist does not believe, and that is pretty much that. The agnostic does not know for certain, and I figured that if I had any real doubts or some desire to know for sure, I'd be searching. Seeing as I was not, I think atheist applies best.

That's a really interesting take on it. I'm not seeking answers...but for some reason, I don't call myself an atheist. Because I don't 'know' with certainty that a god does not exist, or does. Atheism is derived at because of a lack of evidence then?

I have a general understanding of the terms' basic premises, but it's interesting to learn the nuances between the two.

In my opinion, calling oneself an agnostic is an incomplete description. All it tells us is what the person's position regarding their knowledge claims concerning the existence of gods.

Agnosticism is not some sort of middle ground between belief (theism) and disbelief (atheism), as the word is used colloquially.

The formal definition, a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, is a much better definition.

Looking through this thread, I'm reminded of how I was indoctrinated as a kid by my family of origin. I don't blame them for anything, lol. They were brainwashed by their families of origin, too. But, it's interesting, how I view the term 'atheist.' I feel safe to admit this here to all of you, but perhaps part of indoctrination, is that fear component. I feared leaving Christianity. And when I finally did...it wasn't a eureka kind of moment. It was a gradual process, over time.

But, having said all that...why don't I call myself an atheist? I guess I'm afraid to.

Ugh. Maybe this is part of the process. Because deep down, I feel more like myself than I ever have, leaving faith. I feel a sense of peace living life without faith, now. And yet...I feel guilty over leaving it. And that guilt isn't coming from me, it's coming from the fear that was imposed upon me through religion.

I shouldn't feel guilty, wanting to just follow my heart.

Ohhhh my...sound the violins. I didn't mean to go off on a tangent, but thank you for listening.

I know what you mean about the feeling of peace. But guilt? I don't feel that. More a feeling of triumph or relief. Like if you watered both those feelings down with each other.

(March 14, 2014 at 8:56 pm)Rahul Wrote: I know what you mean about the feeling of peace. But guilt? I don't feel that. More a feeling of triumph or relief. Like if you watered both those feelings down with each other.

It's not like it weighs on me daily or anything. But, if I'm honest. It's the one thing that keeps me from saying, I'm an atheist.

What I mean by that isn't that I feel guilty thinking of or classifying myself as an atheist, but rather it's only been the last say two or three years, that I've actually left faith, and started thinking for myself, without a religion dictating to me what I should feel or think about something. While it feels awesome, it also feels...at times still, a little foreign to me.

is this a confessional?

Relevant;

(March 14, 2014 at 9:09 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: Relevant;

Holy crap--I really needed to see that.
Agnosticism isn't a position of belief. I get it now. Then going with all I've learned, all I've heard and read...I guess I'm an atheist (agnostic)

Perhaps you are a wizard, those may exist. This clip really was helpful. Thank you!

Happy to help!

Edit: I might be a wizard, you never know.