(March 18, 2014 at 9:02 pm)discipulus Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 8:59 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Is evolution supported in the Bible? Does the Bible discuss it?

Do not switch the burden over to me Deidre.

I want you to substantiate what you have said.

I've offered you a number of affirming replies, to which you reject them. You believe that the Bible is a viable account of God's existence, and mankind's relationship with/to him. Perhaps you believe that Genesis also has merit, in terms of explaining the origin of man.

In order for you to believe what I'm (and others here are) saying, I'm afraid you'll have to rid yourself of your erroneous views of the Bible.

That's the truth, u know?

And I say that, because we are not arguing logic to logic. We are not arguing fact to fact. We are debating fact to faith. This is the problem.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:02 pm)discipulus Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 8:59 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Is evolution supported in the Bible? Does the Bible discuss it?

Do not switch the burden over to me Deidre.

I want you to substantiate what you have said.

Translation:

If you try to discuss with me or ask me questions, I'm going to ignore it and ask questions to which you've already given ample answer to. Since I don't like your answers, I'm going to stomp my feet like a whiny bitch, refuse your answers and ask again in an arrogant tone, or I'll just make bare assertions that you should just go ahead and accept as truth, my little sheeple.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:07 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 9:02 pm)discipulus Wrote: Do not switch the burden over to me Deidre.

I want you to substantiate what you have said.

I've offered you a number of affirming replies, to which you reject them. You believe that the Bible is a viable account of God's existence, and mankind's relationship with/to him. Perhaps you believe that Genesis also has merit, in terms of explaining the origin of man.

In order for you to believe what I'm (and others here are) saying, I'm afraid you'll have to rid yourself of your erroneous views of the Bible.

That's the truth, u know?

Deidre, let me explain something to you.

When you make a statement like: "Evolution is evidence that the Bible is nonsense" you are assuming a very great burden. The burden is great and because it is you are going to have to have some kind of argument or good reason(s) why your claim to knowledge is true.

I have noticed that most of your posts are just statements of how you feel or how you see a particular issue. That is fine in casual discussion. But when you are talking with a Christian who loves science, philosophy, logic, critical thinking, and cosmology, then you are going to be required to bring some argumentation and evidence to the table.

You see what I mean?

The stuff you say is great to say to another atheist or friends you get together and socialize with. But if you are trying to convince a Christian who has no problem with the concept of things evolving that this evolving is evidence that the bible is nonsense, more will be required than just assertions of opinion.

Understand?

---

(March 18, 2014 at 9:11 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: Translation:

If you try to discuss with me or ask me questions, I'm going to ignore it and ask questions to which you've already given ample answer to. Since I don't like your answers, I'm going to stomp my feet like a whiny bitch, refuse your answers and ask again in an arrogant tone, or I'll just make bare assertions that you should just go ahead and accept as truth, my little sheeple.

Actually all I am doing is asking someone to support their statements. Maybe you are not used to having your views questioned and thus are suspicious of anyone who does.

Maybe you need to realize that you and everyone else here has a burden to bear. You have views just like I do. They differ no doubt. But you do not get a pass. You are not exempt. And since you no doubt would have others think you an intellectual, you need to step up to the plate and bear your burden or either go sit on the bench and talk to the water cooler.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:14 pm)discipulus Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 9:07 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I've offered you a number of affirming replies, to which you reject them. You believe that the Bible is a viable account of God's existence, and mankind's relationship with/to him. Perhaps you believe that Genesis also has merit, in terms of explaining the origin of man.

In order for you to believe what I'm (and others here are) saying, I'm afraid you'll have to rid yourself of your erroneous views of the Bible.

That's the truth, u know?

Deidre, let me explain something to you.

When you make a statement like: "Evolution is evidence that the Bible is nonsense" you are assuming a very great burden. The burden is great and because it is you are going to have to have some kind of argument or good reason(s) why your claim to knowledge is true.

I have noticed that most of your posts are just statements of how you feel or how you see a particular issue. That is fine in casual discussion. But when you are talking with a Christian who loves science, philosophy, and cosmology, then you are going to be required to bring some argumentation and evidence to the table.

You see what I mean?

The stuff you say is great to say to another atheist or friends you get together and socialize with. But if you are trying to convince a Christian who has no problem with the concept of things evolving that this evolving is evidence that the bible is nonsense, more will be required than just assertions of opinion.

Understand?

Evolution isn't my opinion. But, whatever you say, discipulus. You are far wiser than me.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:00 pm)discipulus Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 8:47 pm)Rahul Wrote: Holy fucking shit. If I have to explain this one more fucking time I'm going to have a fucking stroke.

It's a fucking SCIENTIFIC THEORY. Not the type of "theory" that people use in normal day to day casual conversation.

A scientific theory is a collection of proven facts that attempt to accurately explain how something works or why something happens.

The theory of evolution, now pay really close attention here, is a collection of facts that form a framework for the explanation for HOW evolution works.

Evolution is a fact. The theory just tries to explain how it works NOT if it's true or not.

Evolution. Fact.

Theory of Evolution. Explanation of that fact.

I agree that things evolve i.e change and adapt over time. We observe that no doubt.

But the atheist who is a proponent of the theory of evolution by natural selection is a person of great faith! He does not simply say that things change or adapt over time, but rather that homo sapiens owe their existence to a series of natural processes acting on matter originating from some primordial soup which somehow happened to come into existence in the midst of a chaotic, mindless, unguided, unplanned, cosmos.

The proponent of said theory asks me to believe something that is so improbable ......

Well just read:

This idea that evolution could have occurred without an intelligent Designer is so improbable as to be fantastic. This has been demonstrated by Barrow and Tipler in their book The Anthropic Cosmological Principle. In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the odds of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4-360 (110,000), a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God! And here the Christian can be much more open to where the evidence leads. He could say, "Well, God could have used evolution; He could have used special creation. I'm open to the evidence." But, you see, for the naturalist evolution is the only game in town! No matter how fantastic the odds, no matter how improbable the evidence, he's stuck with it because he hasn't got an intelligent Designer. So it seems to me that the Christian can be far more objective on this point. (Portion of a debate transcript, University of Georgia, Athens, Georgia, United States – 1998 - Dr. William Lane Craig)

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm honestly curious:

Do you have some sort of learning disorder that prevents you from retaining new information?

It's already been explained to you multiple times why you've mischaracterized what evolution states, and why empirically testable theories repeatedly verified by observation do not require "faith".

You seem to have extreme difficulty grasping basic principles of science, such as the difference between an hypothesis and a theory, what empirically verifiable means, and even the concept of testability.

If it's not a learning disability, it seems you're simply so dishonest you ignore reasonable and well supported objections, and repeat your original claim back like a parrot.

That's referred to as intellectual dishonesty, and frowned upon greatly in all academic areas.

(March 18, 2014 at 8:43 pm)discipulus Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 8:40 pm)Chas Wrote: Again, you demonstrate that you do not understand the scientific method AND you do not know how to take "we don't know" as an answer.

Evolution does not include the origin of life, it explains change, diversity, and speciation. Creationism has absolutely no explanatory power, it does not qualify as a theory.

Grow up.

You do not know how life originated on earth.

Admitting ignorance is a step in the right direction.

Please join me as we say in unison, "I don't know how life on Earth began." You'll feel much better.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:14 pm)discipulus Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 9:07 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I've offered you a number of affirming replies, to which you reject them. You believe that the Bible is a viable account of God's existence, and mankind's relationship with/to him. Perhaps you believe that Genesis also has merit, in terms of explaining the origin of man.

In order for you to believe what I'm (and others here are) saying, I'm afraid you'll have to rid yourself of your erroneous views of the Bible.

That's the truth, u know?

Deidre, let me explain something to you.

When you make a statement like: "Evolution is evidence that the Bible is nonsense" you are assuming a very great burden. The burden is great and because it is you are going to have to have some kind of argument or good reason(s) why your claim to knowledge is true.

I have noticed that most of your posts are just statements of how you feel or how you see a particular issue. That is fine in casual discussion. But when you are talking with a Christian who loves science, philosophy, logic, critical thinking, and cosmology, then you are going to be required to bring some argumentation and evidence to the table.

You see what I mean?

The stuff you say is great to say to another atheist or friends you get together and socialize with. But if you are trying to convince a Christian who has no problem with the concept of things evolving that this evolving is evidence that the bible is nonsense, more will be required than just assertions of opinion.

Understand?

---

(March 18, 2014 at 9:11 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: Translation:

If you try to discuss with me or ask me questions, I'm going to ignore it and ask questions to which you've already given ample answer to. Since I don't like your answers, I'm going to stomp my feet like a whiny bitch, refuse your answers and ask again in an arrogant tone, or I'll just make bare assertions that you should just go ahead and accept as truth, my little sheeple.

Actually all I am doing is asking someone to support their statements. Maybe you are not used to having your views questioned and thus are suspicious of anyone who does.

Maybe you need to realize that you and everyone else here has a burden to bear. You have views just like I do. They differ no doubt. But you do not get a pass. You are not exempt. And since you no doubt would have others think you an intellectual, you need to step up to the plate and bear your burden or either go sit on the bench and talk to the water cooler.

We have no such 'burden,' to you or any other religious person who willfully denies truth. This isn't a court of law. lol

Believe whatever you wish. It doesn't bother any of us, really. But, please don't insult us by using religion to refute science and then scold us when we call you out on it.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:00 pm)discipulus Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 8:47 pm)Rahul Wrote: Holy fucking shit. If I have to explain this one more fucking time I'm going to have a fucking stroke.

It's a fucking SCIENTIFIC THEORY. Not the type of "theory" that people use in normal day to day casual conversation.

A scientific theory is a collection of proven facts that attempt to accurately explain how something works or why something happens.

The theory of evolution, now pay really close attention here, is a collection of facts that form a framework for the explanation for HOW evolution works.

Evolution is a fact. The theory just tries to explain how it works NOT if it's true or not.

Evolution. Fact.

Theory of Evolution. Explanation of that fact.

I agree that things evolve i.e change and adapt over time. We observe that no doubt.

But the atheist who is a proponent of the theory of evolution by natural selection is a person of great faith! He does not simply say that things change or adapt over time, but rather that homo sapiens owe their existence to a series of natural processes acting on matter originating from some primordial soup which somehow happened to come into existence in the midst of a chaotic, mindless, unguided, unplanned, cosmos.

The proponent of said theory asks me to believe something that is so improbable ......

Well just read:

This idea that evolution could have occurred without an intelligent Designer is so improbable as to be fantastic. This has been demonstrated by Barrow and Tipler in their book The Anthropic Cosmological Principle. In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the odds of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4-360 (110,000), a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God! And here the Christian can be much more open to where the evidence leads. He could say, "Well, God could have used evolution; He could have used special creation. I'm open to the evidence." But, you see, for the naturalist evolution is the only game in town! No matter how fantastic the odds, no matter how improbable the evidence, he's stuck with it because he hasn't got an intelligent Designer. So it seems to me that the Christian can be far more objective on this point. (Portion of a debate transcript, University of Georgia, Athens, Georgia, United States – 1998 - Dr. William Lane Craig)

Argument from personal incredulity. And ignorance.

You do not know enough about the evidence to have an informed opinion.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:22 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Don't take this the wrong way, I'm honestly curious:

Do you have some sort of learning disorder that prevents you from retaining new information?

It's already been explained to you multiple times why you've mischaracterized what evolution states, and why empirically testable theories repeatedly verified by observation do not require "faith".

You seem to have extreme difficulty grasping basic principles of science, such as the difference between an hypothesis and a theory, what empirically verifiable means, and even the concept of testability.

If it's not a learning disability, it seems you're simply so dishonest you ignore reasonable and well supported objections, and repeat your original claim back like a parrot.

That's referred to as intellectual dishonesty, and frowned upon greatly in all academic areas.

Ahh, the old ad hominem....

I love them.... in fact they are delicious! It tells me you cannot attack my argument so you have to resort to attacking me personally.

I will leave you with a word from Old Hitch himself:

“I always think it’s a sign of victory when they move on to the ad hominem“ - Christopher Hitchens

---

(March 18, 2014 at 9:27 pm)Chas Wrote: Argument from personal incredulity. And ignorance.

You do not know enough about the evidence to have an informed opinion.

Yea, I guess Barrow and Tipler and Craig need to sit under you old wise one and learn a thing or too as well.....right?

---

(March 18, 2014 at 9:26 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: We have no such 'burden,' to you or any other religious person who willfully denies truth. This isn't a court of law. lol

Believe whatever you wish. It doesn't bother any of us, really. But, please don't insult us by using religion to refute science and then scold us when we call you out on it.

You have a burden whenever you say something that you want to be taken as more than just your opinion.

I do not attempt to refute science. I like science. I just do not worship it as a god and kneel before the men who speak on behalf of it.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:14 pm)discipulus Wrote: Actually all I am doing is asking someone to support their statements. Maybe you are not used to having your views questioned and thus are suspicious of anyone who does.

Aww, aren't you adorable. I'm the only atheist in a Christian family with a brother in law and a father with a PhD and an MD, I'm quite used to having my beliefs questioned boyo.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:14 pm)discipulus Wrote: Maybe you need to realize that you and everyone else here has a burden to bear. You have views just like I do. They differ no doubt. But you do not get a pass. You are not exempt.

The burden for the veracity of your God is yours, evolution is a scientific theory not a casual theory and if you reject even that much then there is no conversation here because you are not rational. If you cannot accept that we descend from other species then go bury yourself in your bible and leave the talking to the adults.

(March 18, 2014 at 9:14 pm)discipulus Wrote: And since you no doubt would have others think you an intellectual, you need to step up to the plate and bear your burden or either go sit on the bench and talk to the water cooler.

The burden is not mine to bear, you refuse to accept scientific fact. If you cannot accept the work of those in the field of science, then the burden is yours to bear to prove them wrong. You're up to bat little man and we, those who subscribe to rationality and science, are waiting.