(March 20, 2014 at 12:47 pm)Lek Wrote: I'd probably be ready to give it up if I could no longer believe that Jesus is who he said he is. If he was a fraud, that would nullify the whole bible for me because he's the fufillment of the whole old testament.

Oh, awesome then: where's your evidence that Jesus existed?

Quote:I don't get why it's so hard to recognize the OT as documenting Israelite warlord god mythology.

It's more than that, though, Jesus. Primarily it exists to justify the right to rule of the upper classes. All those tedious genealogies serve to show how families which were important at the time the bullshit was written down were related to earlier "heroes" and such.

There was a similar demonstration of this when Julius Caesar claimed to be descended from "Venus."

We are dealing with ancient political documents.

Thanks min -- yes, the need of the leadership/mafia-in-residence to control the masses is probably the raison d'etre for much of the OT.

Sprinkle in a little sex, some violence and a whole lot of rules and there you go.

(March 20, 2014 at 12:47 pm)Lek Wrote: Once you know Jesus, then the old testament story all falls into place.

And that's supposed to be reassuring...?

Once you actually get acquainted with the Old Testament, you realize it essentially demonstrates why the Jesus myth is so morally obscene and demented to begin with.

(March 20, 2014 at 5:05 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(March 20, 2014 at 12:47 pm)Lek Wrote: Once you know Jesus, then the old testament story all falls into place.

And that's supposed to be reassuring...?

Once you actually get acquainted with the Old Testament, you realize it essentially demonstrates why the Jesus myth is so morally obscene and demented to begin with.

Once you know Jesus you discover just what a load of nonsense the whole bible is.

(March 20, 2014 at 12:47 pm)Lek Wrote: I'd probably be ready to give it up if I could no longer believe that Jesus is who he said he is.

You meant to say what others, decades after the alleged facts, claimed about him, right?

Quote:If he was a fraud, that would nullify the whole bible for me because he's the fufillment of the whole old testament. He is what the old testament is testifying to.

According to Christians, that is. You might want to check with the Jews to see how convincing they find the Christian interpretation of their scriptures. Or better yet, just look carefully at the OT prophecies Christians claim Jesus fulfilled. Many of these "prophecies" have jack shit to do with Jesus -- or, for that matter, with the Messiah. And as for the others, you have to ask yourself whether you are quite sure that the NT authors didn't retrofit the "facts" to match the prophecy. Any way you cut it, there is more than reasonable doubt that Jesus was who he said (i.e., later Christians claimed) he was or that he truly fulfilled the prophetic expectations of Hebrew scripture.

(March 20, 2014 at 5:30 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(March 20, 2014 at 12:47 pm)Lek Wrote: I'd probably be ready to give it up if I could no longer believe that Jesus is who he said he is.

You meant to say what others, decades after the alleged facts, claimed about him, right?

Quote:If he was a fraud, that would nullify the whole bible for me because he's the fufillment of the whole old testament. He is what the old testament is testifying to.

According to Christians, that is. You might want to check with the Jews to see how convincing they find the Christian interpretation of their scriptures. Or better yet, just look carefully at the OT prophecies Christians claim Jesus fulfilled. Many of these "prophecies" have jack shit to do with Jesus -- or, for that matter, with the Messiah. And as for the others, you have to ask yourself whether you are quite sure that the NT authors didn't retrofit the "facts" to match the prophecy. Any way you cut it, there is more than reasonable doubt that Jesus was who he said (i.e., later Christians claimed) he was or that he truly fulfilled the prophetic expectations of Hebrew scripture.

Of course many Jews don't agree with the christian interpretation of the old testament. Although many Jews are christians today and the remaining Jews don't even follow the old testament law. I'm not aware of any animal sacrifices going on today. As far as testimony concerning Jesus, who am I believe? Should I believe the biased christian writers, some who walked with him, or should I believe the biased anti-christian researchers who want to debunk christianity? The Jews hated him and the Romans had no interest in going along with his resurrection and they wouldn't even want to say that some Jewish fisherman stole him from the tomb under the noses of the Roman guards.

(March 19, 2014 at 10:50 am)Bittersmart Wrote:

(March 19, 2014 at 10:40 am)Drich Wrote: Then please explain in detail how the ark is indeed a pivotal belief and unique to Christianity.

The story of Noah is about the nature of the Christian god and the nature of the people he created. It's about sin, punishment, and fear/respect of god. This story has also been used by creationists in scientific discussions. It's also a standard story for children's Bible Study and a lesson about not to pissing off god and that it's okay when when the Christian god kills people. Saying that the story of Noah doesn't have an impact on the Christian community is disingenuous, I think.

Another takeaway from the Noah story is that a person's works can save not only himself but also others. Noah could have had all the faith in the world but in order to save himself he had to get off of his butt and do some works.

The Noah story illustrates the power of works. Other stories illustrate the power of faith. Faith is pretty much useless when one is faced with impending physical doom. The Bible stories explore how one is "saved" -- by faith, works, or grace (luck).

Jesus had a lot of faith but it didn't prevent him from getting crucified.

Noah did some works and saved not only himself but also his family.

Lot and his skanky daughters were saved by grace (luck) even though they didn't deserve it.

The Zuni of New Mexico told this story.

Quote: A great flood once forced the Zunis out of their valley to take refuge on a nearby tableland. But the flood rose nearly to the top of the tableland, and the people, fearing it would drown them all, decided to offer a human sacrifice to appease the angry waters. A youth and maiden, children of two Priests of the Rain, were dressed in finery and thrown into the flood. The waters began subsiding immediately. The two young people turned to stone; they may be seen as two great pinnacles rising from the tableland.

I'm sure Drippy thinks this one is total bullshit but his is just as it fucking happened!

Anyone else noticed that Drippy and the Godsquad have taken to a hit & run methodology lately?