(March 25, 2014 at 10:03 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Here are just a few problems with the ark.

• It's 450 feet long by 300 feet high by 75 feet wide. I would like to point out that at a certain length (something less than 300 feet), ships invariably begin to get less and less seaworthy. You simply cannot entrust something you can't expect to stay afloat with the preservation of life on Earth.
  
• By simple calculation, the Ark had a volume of 10,125,000 cubic feet, which is not likely to contain all 8.7 million species estimated to live on Earth.
  
• To get around this, some creationists note that Noah did not take two of every species, but two of every "kind". Apart from the fact that they have never given an adequate definition of "kind," even if they could get the number small enough to fit on the ark, this would, ironically enough, not only actually require evolution (and speciation specifically) to happen, but to happen at such an alarming rate that nobody could deny it.
  

Many of the insects would not have taken up more than a cubic inch, many of the animals would not ave taken up more than a cubic foot, most of the birds would not taken up more than 1.5 cubic feet, and many of them less than a cubic foot. Many reptiles would not have taken up a cubic foot, seems to me that the 10,000,000 cubic feet is getting more spacious. I doubt that there were 8.3 million animals on the Ark because God did say kinds. Kind were those which can not interbreed, that does not hold true with today's definition of species. Who says that creationist do not believe in speciation, the lion and tiger are breed together to bring about another cat called a liger, yet it is still a cat. If evolution were correct we could breed a lion and a dog and get a log.

GC

GC how long ago did flood occur?

@ tor, the water is still here why would you think it went any where. let me give you a hint, before the flood there were no rains, why not?

GC

Quote:the lion and tiger are breed together to bring about another cat called a liger

Actually its either called a liger or a tigron depending on which is the male. There's a slight problem there though - both ligers and tigrons are mules - they cannot breed further - they are infertile.

Nice try.

Oh - and as for the space required for some of the creatures apparently Noah had to take everything with nostrils - so that blue whale must have been a bitch to get on board.

(March 27, 2014 at 5:35 am)tor Wrote: GC how long ago did flood occur?

We have no exact date, we can use the Bible and the generations it names to give us a clue, we do not however know that all generations were recorded. But I'm guessing 4000 years at least.

GC

(March 27, 2014 at 5:41 am)Godschild Wrote:

(March 27, 2014 at 5:35 am)tor Wrote: GC how long ago did flood occur?

We have no exact date, we can use the Bible and the generations it names to give us a clue, we do not however know that all generations were recorded. But I'm guessing 4000 years at least.

GC

1. Where did all the water go which was required for flooding the earth?
   
2. Do you know that earth is a sphere?
   
3. How did forests survived?
   
4. How did animals get across continents?
   
5. How did polar bears survive?
   
6. Why don't we find remains of tons of people who died in the flood?
   
7. How did people get to south america, north america and australia?
   

(March 27, 2014 at 5:39 am)max-greece Wrote:

Quote:the lion and tiger are breed together to bring about another cat called a liger

Actually its either called a liger or a tigron depending on which is the male. There's a slight problem there though - both ligers and tigrons are mules - they cannot breed further - they are infertile.

Nice try.

Oh - and as for the space required for some of the creatures apparently Noah had to take everything with nostrils - so that blue whale must have been a bitch to get on board.

It's still a cat and a mule is still equine. I guess you didn't know they could swim, the blue whale that is.

GC

GC's responses in this thread should be used as Exhibit A every time some fundy fuckwit wants Creationsim and the like to be taught in public school. Holy shit! I wish I new GC wasn't sincere, but this is par for the course.

Silly debate is silly.

At some point, whether it's how the ark was built, how noah managed to fit everything aboard, how he managed to catch all the "kinds" of animal, where the water came from / went, what the animals ate when they left the ark (eg, why the lions dis not wipe out the gazelle 40 seconds after the gates opened), at some point one has to introduce the "nothing is impossible with god" argument. Else it's not a miracle. Whether we need to invoke God magic from square one, how come noah lived so long, or only once or twice, is irrelevant.

If it was all entirely natural, explicable and requires no "God magic", then it ceases to be anything more than a geological event and has no more to do with God than a volcano or tsunami.

GC you're happy to invoke God magic for the resurrection or water into wine, why the effort to suggest that God magic was not at work here?

(March 27, 2014 at 5:49 am)Godschild Wrote:

(March 27, 2014 at 5:39 am)max-greece Wrote: Actually its either called a liger or a tigron depending on which is the male. There's a slight problem there though - both ligers and tigrons are mules - they cannot breed further - they are infertile.

Nice try.

Oh - and as for the space required for some of the creatures apparently Noah had to take everything with nostrils - so that blue whale must have been a bitch to get on board.

It's still a cat and a mule is still equine. I guess you didn't know they could swim, the blue whale that is.

GC

Sorry GC your stupidity is confusing me.

Are you suggesting Noah took a pair of ligers on the ark? If you are, and that is what I though you meant then that wouldn't work because ligers are infertile - that's the point.

As for the blue whale - yes I know it can swim - but according to Genesis 7, 15 "Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark."

The breath of life? Not fish then - but whales, which breath, are included.

I didn't write this shit you know. There was no reason to take whales, other than God not knowing they "have the breath of life."

Of course its confirmed again in Verse 22:

"Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out;"

Again God doesn't get it that some sea creatures have the breath of life in its nostrils.

Shocking, ain't it!