(April 15, 2010 at 12:52 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Umm If we're dead how can terrible pain, the whole nashing of teeth thingy, be inflicted on us?? Wouldn't we need a body for that?

Great point! And it reminds me of a time when I saw something that was shown to kids at one of those "Christian Camps". It basically told a story about a teenage boy who was killed in a car accident and ended up in hell because he didn't believe in Jesus. The whole thing was pretty sickening because this teenage boy was crying out a friend's name and screaming, "You could have saved me if you told me about Jesus! Why didn't you tell me about Jesus! They're going to throw me in a lake of fire! You could have told me about Jesus!".... blah blah blah. The message was that if your friend ends up in hell because you didn't tell them about Jesus IT'S YOUR FAULT!

Anyway, the really funny part was when this teenage boy starts screaming about how they're coming to get him so they can toss him into this lake of fire and he says that his "heart is pounding!" How can your heart be pounding if you're dead?

AngelThMan Wrote:If a person kills their kid to defy and test God, then they do not love Jesus, and therefore are not covered.

tavarish Wrote:And where did I say ANYTHING about defying or testing God? I'm saying if they truly believe in such doctrine (heaven and hell) to the point where their actions have very real implications in the afterlife, why not rid their children of the stresses of life and allow them eternity in God's good graces?

This isn't about people defying anything, I'm giving a hypothetical account for people who truly believe that what they are doing is in accordance with their religious dogma.

God's doctrine clearly denounces murder, and condemns cultures that sacrifice their children. So if a Christian kills their kid to send them to heaven, they are clearly defying and testing God. To present an effective hypothetical account you need to have a better understanding of the dogma.

tavarish Wrote:You obviously didn't get the point and ignored any refutations to your wild claim that intelligent humans = God.

It's arrogant and delusional that you keep calling your arguments refutations. You believe your own statements, and in an atheist forum you may get a lot of support. But in the real world they would not be considered refutations in the least. I've read all arguments, addressed them, and explained why I rejected each and every one of them. If you've ignored my responses, then it's on you.

Many pages back I tossed you a checkmate question, which you cleverly bypassed. To refresh your memory, and everyone else's, this is when we were still in our back and forth debate about humans' world dominion. You kept denying that humans have control of the world, claiming we don't have control over other species...


Another forum member called you on your evasiveness...


Tav, I've just demonstrated with evidence that it is you who is 'intellectually dishonest.' All you care about is winning, not getting to the truth, and it is you who has ignored my refutations.

AngelThMan Wrote:And yet you've accused me of 'intellectual dishonesty' and of posting ad hominem arguments.

Tavarish Wrote:You apparently don't know what Ad Hominem means, as evidenced by this post:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-3113-pos...l#pid62991

I would qualify your claims that I've been "soundly defeated" and that I "ignore refutations" as ad hominems, as they're really personal attacks and appeals to others with beliefs like yours.

Tavarish Wrote:...Rational adults solve disputes in this way, not by regurgitating dogma and unfounded claims.

More ad hominem, which is what you constantly accuse me of. Point out where I've 'regurgitated dogma.' I purposely guard against doing this. You're regurgitating atheist cliches.

Ignoring all of the back and forth accusations and vitriol, AngelThMan, I for one would be pleasantly surprised to see irrefutable evidence that "God" exists. I have read every word you've written (along with everyone else) in this thread and I do not see any evidence to support that claim at all, let alone irrefutable evidence.

If you have clear, concise, irrefutable evidence to support your claim that 'God exists', please post it. I am an atheist, which only means I do not believe that claim. I am always willing to change my mind if presented with reason to do so. So... please... indulge me.

(April 15, 2010 at 10:23 am)AngelThMan Wrote: God's doctrine clearly denounces murder, and condemns cultures that sacrifice their children. So if a Christian kills their kid to send them to heaven, they are clearly defying and testing God.

And why does this matter? Doesn't accepting Jesus mean that HE takes the punishment for your sins and you get free admittance to eternal paradise? So, if a parent kills their child to make sure the child gets into heaven, then accepts Jesus and asks forgiveness, isn't the parent covered?

Yes he is covered Thor. As I posted before that all manner of sin is forgiven except blashemy of the Holy Ghost. Even that is dubious since if you ask most Christians what that means you will get several nonsensical answers.

(April 15, 2010 at 11:31 am)chatpilot Wrote: Yes he is covered Thor. As I posted before that all manner of sin is forgiven

That's what I thought....

Quote: except blashemy of the Holy Ghost.

Hmmmm.... you can kill people by the truckload, accept Jesus as your savior and ask forgiveness, and you're good to go! But "blaspheme" (whatever that means) the "Holy Spirit" and nothing can save you.

Yeah, makes perfect sense to me!

Lol that is what I say fuck the Holy Ghost ooooops now I went and did it. I can feel the flames licking at my heels as I type lol.

(April 15, 2010 at 12:16 pm)chatpilot Wrote: Lol that is what I say fuck the Holy Ghost ooooops now I went and did it. I can feel the flames licking at my heels as I type lol.

I'm curious.... is it only the "Holy Ghost" that you can't blaspheme? What if you blaspheme "God" or "Jesus"? Can you still ask forgiveness and get into heaven? If so, why is the "Holy Ghost" the only one that screws you?

(April 15, 2010 at 10:23 am)AngelThMan Wrote: God's doctrine clearly denounces murder, and condemns cultures that sacrifice their children. So if a Christian kills their kid to send them to heaven, they are clearly defying and testing God. To present an effective hypothetical account you need to have a better understanding of the dogma.

You seem to have the stereotypical Christian understanding of the God of the Hebrews that doesn't accurately portray his character in the Bible. Why would a God who rejects child sacrifice order Abraham to sacrifice his own child knowing full well he'd do it anyway? What did it accomplish apart from terrifying Isaac? If a sane god was testing Abraham's integrity then why didn't he rebuke the man the moment he agreed to murder his son in cold blood on a whim?

Why did your God-concept maul children to death with wild bears for simply making fun of Elisha's baldness? What wrong did these children commit? Thou Shalt Not Make Jokes Of Elisha's Apparent Baldness? Thou Shalt Not Have A Sense Of Humour?

Why would any benevolent god opposed to murder have his only son, Jesus, nailed to a fricking cross, when he could have just, you know, forgiven everyone? Why would a logical God choose the most destructive and violent solution to the problem?

You speak of dogma, yet your god concept who blatantly "denounces murder" has managed a total of 2,270,365+ kills. It's not particularly hard to see how a young Adolf Hitler was indeed inspired by religious dogmatism.

And before you continue to ignore me again, at least my Invisible Pink Unicorn goddess concept has a spotless record, she wouldn't hurt a soul, unlike yours.

(BBHH) I love how Samson's strength was contingent on hair length, what a weird requirement.