You certainly will need to use resources, Rev, but you have been advised that the resources available at those websites has been discredited. If you persist in using it, do not expect people to be impressed or swayed in any way whatsoever. I'm sure you have been recommended some reading on the subject. You should investigate it if you have any interest in being taken seriously, because to not do so would show that you are either too afraid, stupid or blinkered to read up on the subject.

Manage your expectations, people. If you expect this man to ever actually engage, you will be disappointed. This is why I suggest we just get this evolution thing out of our heads. Anyone who needs two weeks to compile 'resources' from Answers in Genesis and Conservapaedia will only be a sour disappointment.

Two weeks?

I wrote the asshole off on Day #1.

Yo, Rev: Here.

If you want to approach this evolution thing honestly, check that index against every claim that you want to make, before you post them. If they're on the list, read the corresponding article so you'll know what's actually going on there, and not what creationists want to lie about; you would agree with me that being accurate is important here, yes?

That way, we can cut out a lot of corrections right at the beginning, and you can show us all that you do take facts and evidence seriously, and you're not just here to proselytize regardless of the truth.

(April 12, 2014 at 8:07 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 11, 2014 at 11:06 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Let me give you a little friendly advice.

If you're planning on using material from Answers in Genesis, The Institute for Creation Research and the like, as many evolution detractors do, there's a few things you should be aware of.

1. We've seen all of it, and to put it lightly: they are unconvincing.

2. If you use said material without a decent understanding of what the mainstream scientific consensus actually is regarding evolution, you're going to end up looking foolish in the eyes of those you'd seek to convince.

3. Educate yourself on the recent evidence gathered through DNA sequencing, particularly the implications of endogenous retrovirus insertions in DNA. This is some of the most compelling evidence for common ancestry, and I guarantee it will come up.

Thank you for your advice but I will need to use resources.

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(April 12, 2014 at 12:47 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Yeah, it's only a problem for those that insist on reading Genesis literally. Why they insist on doing so is a mystery to me. So much of Genesis reads as ancient mythology and just-so storytelling.

I recommend you go watch the movie, "God Is Not Dead" I saw it today and it was very moving.

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(April 11, 2014 at 9:52 am)Esquilax Wrote: I will remind you Rev, ahead of such a thread, that continuing to misrepresent what evolution is, and what the scientific body of evidence in favor of it is, would be entirely dishonest since you've been prompted to see the truth in this regard, and that starting a new thread to make more claims that you've already been corrected on will result in a very thorough debunking, not only of the claims themselves, but also of your profoundly un-christian attitude in bringing them up.

thank you for your statement

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(April 12, 2014 at 11:28 am)Godlesspanther Wrote: Always having been on the outside it seems mind-boggling to me that people are really unable to see the blatant dishonesty of creationism. Every single one of the prominent creation dope-pushers is a shameless liar and obviously so.

As Aron Ra has said many time, to paraphrase, that there comes a time in a creationists' education and life experience when they are faced with the question-- "Do you want to be a creationist or do you want to be honest?"

I suspect that those who remain creationists after that point of education and knowledge just really don't care about whether something is true or false. The doctrine must come first no matter what.

Creationist are being honest.

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(April 12, 2014 at 12:47 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Yeah, it's only a problem for those that insist on reading Genesis literally. Why they insist on doing so is a mystery to me. So much of Genesis reads as ancient mythology and just-so storytelling.

Genesis is foundational

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(April 12, 2014 at 11:50 am)ThomM Wrote: Actually - the 7 largest xtian sects - representing over 75% of the worlds xtians - accept that evolution happened - although they disagree on the origin of initial "life". It is a relatively few sects that require the absolute belief in the inerrancy of the bible - down to Adam and Eve - and it can be shown that few of those actually believe the creation stories of the bible anyway.

Religion knows that they cannot enforce beliefs that disagree with proven reality - and the end result of trying to do so is to alienate the next generation.

The problem is that religion was the center of the culture of many of the older people of the world - regardless of which religion or sub-religion they believed in. And it is only now that the older generation of complete believers is actually dying off. Studies have already shown that a majority of the young people do not believe in creation - and even in religion itself - but put on a front to sidestep family problems - knowing that eventually that problem will go away. And these young people have no intention of following religion once they have less family problems with it.

But for most who otherwise still believe in an afterlife and a god - even if their beliefs do not accept the whole of their religion - it is largely a belief that there must be something more than just our life here on earth. There has to be a "better" place to go to afterwards. And the priests of religion are only eager to take those people's money and say whatever is needed to keep the cash cow alive.

Still - religion is waning in the educated areas of the world. Studies have shown it is heading toward extinction in several European countries - plus Australia. The problem for religion is money. While religion is still spreading among the third world countries where belief in superstition is still rampant and education is still poor - the problem is that these countries cannot support the religions monetarily. While the Xtian religions have largely survived on Western and USA money - as the aging population of believers dwindles - there is no new source for money - and that is why there are so many closed churches. Add a shortage of clergy too.

Science and education - and reality - have worked to prove that religion is a thing of the past.

I respectfully disagree. We need to go to the author of life to gain insight into His creation.

Resources: Creationist material from sources such as AIG, ICR, DI, etc. is notoriously dishonest material. We have been presented with this bullshit countless times. The lame excuses (I will not call them 'arguments') that are presented by these groups have been thoroughly debunked time and time again. The creationists continue to spew false information that has been demonstrated to be false, knowing that it has been debunked -- in other words -- they lie.

What you are planning to do is post crap from these dishonest sources that has already been debunked. We are not impressed with lies.

I watched the debate between Ken Ham and Bill Nye. That debate demonstrated what a sick, twisted, lying sack of shit Ham really is. I really don't think that Ham made one honest statement in the whole debate, not one.

Answers in Genesis and the other creationist lie factories all have what they call a "statement of faith" in which they declare that any information -- real world evidence -- that contradicts their magic story book will be rejected. This means that, up front, they have chosen to lie to uphold their fucked-up doctrine.

We are adults and so we do not believe in magic story books that are always right even when they are obviously wrong. That simply does not work logically and it's anything but science.

Answers in Genesis is a fascist hate cult. Ken Ham is a dangerous and destructive fascist hate cult leader.

Creationists are not honest, that has been made clear time and time again. Every debate, every court case, every creationist propaganda mill has demonstrated repeatedly that creationists are liars. They have to lie because the construct is based on a pack of lies.

Revelation777 Wrote:I recommend you go watch the movie, "God Is Not Dead" I saw it today and it was very moving.

I'm sure no one here is surprised that you found a movie that is full of strawmen arguments and poorly written pseudo-atheists that speak in ways that atheists only speak inside the sheltered minds of Christians.

Seriously, just watching the preview of the movie was enough to that it was just misinformed religious propaganda meant to stir up the faithful and empty their pockets. Christians are nortiously easy to separate from their money, and they drool at thought of pleasing their savior by giving money to the people that produce these movies. The fact that this movie has grossed 35 million just goes to show how eager you all are to induldge yourself in enternainment that reinforces your religious bubble by having no resemblence to realtiy.

(April 12, 2014 at 8:37 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote:

(April 12, 2014 at 8:07 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I recommend you go watch the movie, "God Is Not Dead" I saw it today and it was very moving.

That movie is one giant, fallacious, stereotypical Christian joke and not a particularly funny one either. The fact that you found it "very moving" says a lot about you.

Did you see it?

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(April 12, 2014 at 10:33 am)Thackerie Wrote:

(April 12, 2014 at 12:47 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Yeah, it's only a problem for those that insist on reading Genesis literally. Why they insist on doing so is a mystery to me. So much of Genesis reads as ancient mythology and just-so storytelling.

Fundies have to believe that Adam and Eve really were the first humans, that they really committed the "original sin" that got them kicked out of the Garden of Eden, that all subsequent humans inherited this propensity to sin, and that only Jesus can clear us of this sin trait (if only we believe, confess our sins, and repent) and thereby enable us to avoid Hell and go to Heaven.

Without the illness (original sin), there's no need for a cure (Jesus!!!!) and the whole religion falls apart.

But all have sinned. Even before we sinned, it appears that Adam and Eve were enjoying their fellowship with the Creator.

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(April 12, 2014 at 10:59 am)truthBtold Wrote: And to think people believe this crap... this god that knows everything, can do anything, after creating us, figures out ...hey, this isnt working out. So he floods the world, killing everything, then see that we r up to no good again and Decides to kill someone ( or himself)(however the fuck it goes).. to solve this problem..

Why such anger?

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(April 13, 2014 at 11:52 am)Faith No More Wrote:

Revelation777 Wrote:I recommend you go watch the movie, "God Is Not Dead" I saw it today and it was very moving.

I'm sure no one here is surprised that you found a movie that is full of strawmen arguments and poorly written pseudo-atheists that speak in ways that atheists only speak inside the sheltered minds of Christians.

Seriously, just watching the preview of the movie was enough to that it was just misinformed religious propaganda meant to stir up the faithful and empty their pockets. Christians are nortiously easy to separate from their money, and they drool at thought of pleasing their savior by giving money to the people that produce these movies. The fact that this movie has grossed 35 million just goes to show how eager you all are to induldge yourself in enternainment that reinforces your religious bubble by having no resemblence to realtiy.

I find it interesting how atheists are quick to judge the Bible but few have read it objectively from cover to cover. Christian movies the same. If you really don't want to believe something, Jesus appearing before you may not convince you.

(March 27, 2014 at 11:01 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Dear Friends,
If you can read this posting then God is still offering you an opportunity to receive His Son the Lord Jesus. Repent and turn from your sins before it is too late. Jesus paid a great price on the cross so that we can be saved. Don't reject this wonderful gift. You will not regret making Him your Lord and Savior.
Blessings,
Rev777

Sorry, we are not lost puppies or broken objects for you to fix. That comic book was written over 1,000 year period with over 40 authors and books left out. Not to mention all the stupid comic book claims in it that are hardly consistent to scientific reality.

I cannot take a book seriously that treats the earth as 6 days old knowing science has proven it to be 4 billion years old. I cannot take that book seriously when DNA proves that we have common ancestors in other primates, while your comic book magically pops men out of dirt and women out of a man's rib.

Morally it is just as bad even without bringing science into it. Humans are treated like props at best and pawns and property most of the time. You might think of yourself as property, but I don't think of myself as such. Nor would I find any value in a book that demands that I bow to someone and be put under their power without my input or consent.

I think you need to consider that WE, not you, we are out to help you wake up out of your delusional fantasy. You merely are in love with the idea of a magical super hero. We have already accepted the reality that humans make them up, you included.

(April 13, 2014 at 3:37 am)DarkHorse Wrote: But isn't that what we've come to expect from Rev? Not the mention a lot of other Xtians that come here.

Thank you for your feedback.

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(April 12, 2014 at 11:28 am)Godlesspanther Wrote:

(April 12, 2014 at 7:04 am)Tonus Wrote: Because it's what they are taught and they are certain that it makes no sense, and that the only way that anyone else believes it is because they are ignorant or mislead. Anytime I see the arguments against evolution I can easily see my former self making them and finding zero objections among my religious colleagues of any faith. That it seems to be such a universal attitude among people of varying faiths and denominations makes it that much more of a certainty for them.

It may be one of the most effective bubbles I've ever experienced from the inside and seen from the outside. Lacking (or simply not accepting) the understanding of evolution works and how time scales factor in makes the idea of macro-evolution easy to dismiss and extremely difficult to even consider.

Always having been on the outside it seems mind-boggling to me that people are really unable to see the blatant dishonesty of creationism. Every single one of the prominent creation dope-pushers is a shameless liar and obviously so.

As Aron Ra has said many time, to paraphrase, that there comes a time in a creationists' education and life experience when they are faced with the question-- "Do you want to be a creationist or do you want to be honest?"

I suspect that those who remain creationists after that point of education and knowledge just really don't care about whether something is true or false. The doctrine must come first no matter what.

Yes, we put the Truth of God firstly because He said we shall know the truth and the truth will set us free.

(April 13, 2014 at 2:39 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 12, 2014 at 8:37 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: That movie is one giant, fallacious, stereotypical Christian joke and not a particularly funny one either. The fact that you found it "very moving" says a lot about you.

Did you see it?

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(April 12, 2014 at 10:33 am)Thackerie Wrote: Fundies have to believe that Adam and Eve really were the first humans, that they really committed the "original sin" that got them kicked out of the Garden of Eden, that all subsequent humans inherited this propensity to sin, and that only Jesus can clear us of this sin trait (if only we believe, confess our sins, and repent) and thereby enable us to avoid Hell and go to Heaven.

Without the illness (original sin), there's no need for a cure (Jesus!!!!) and the whole religion falls apart.

But all have sinned. Even before we sinned, it appears that Adam and Eve were enjoying their fellowship with the Creator.

---

(April 12, 2014 at 10:59 am)truthBtold Wrote: And to think people believe this crap... this god that knows everything, can do anything, after creating us, figures out ...hey, this isnt working out. So he floods the world, killing everything, then see that we r up to no good again and Decides to kill someone ( or himself)(however the fuck it goes).. to solve this problem..

Why such anger?

---

(April 13, 2014 at 11:52 am)Faith No More Wrote: I'm sure no one here is surprised that you found a movie that is full of strawmen arguments and poorly written pseudo-atheists that speak in ways that atheists only speak inside the sheltered minds of Christians.

Seriously, just watching the preview of the movie was enough to that it was just misinformed religious propaganda meant to stir up the faithful and empty their pockets. Christians are nortiously easy to separate from their money, and they drool at thought of pleasing their savior by giving money to the people that produce these movies. The fact that this movie has grossed 35 million just goes to show how eager you all are to induldge yourself in enternainment that reinforces your religious bubble by having no resemblence to realtiy.

I find it interesting how atheists are quick to judge the Bible but few have read it objectively from cover to cover. Christian movies the same. If you really don't want to believe something, Jesus appearing before you may not convince you.

Hey Rev, its me Mothonis here to poke holes in you assertions

1.Many people including christians were disgusted at the film.

2.Sin is imaginary

3.Atheists read the bible objectivly and find it appalling.Its christians who are indoctrinated and have biased views.If Jesus appeared before me I would think i was hallucinateing.That film was just there to bash Atheists every character who wasn't a christian was considered extremely evil.