(April 15, 2014 at 10:50 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Snowtracks, I think what some folks are trying to say is that the universe could be much older, even eternal, if the universe is in a bang-crunch-bang-crunch cycle and we can only say with some certainty that this iteration of the unverse is over 13 billion years old. However, we can't say we're in a cyclic universe with any certainty either, so if it was me, I wouldn't give you any grief on that particular point.

well that was nice.

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(April 14, 2014 at 10:49 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Congratulations! You've completely ignored the question, and parroted the same response twice!

You've won a brand new blindfold, and a lifetime subscription to Ignoramus magazine!

Ignoramus magazine: the only magazine subscription that lets you maintain a belief in a 6,000 year old universe and earth, and maintain that your holy book never changes even when it's completely wrong about basic facts! Accept the belief that the universe will end in 80 billion years, but maintain the belief that earth is only 6,000 years old? No problem! With Ignoramus magazine, any idiotic set of beliefs you desire to maintain are reasonable!

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this one is posting like a hillside cretin. if you hold the same worldview as her, you might want to closely examine that view.

(April 15, 2014 at 10:50 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Snowtracks, I think what some folks are trying to say is that the universe could be much older, even eternal, if the universe is in a bang-crunch-bang-crunch cycle and we can only say with some certainty that this iteration of the unverse is over 13 billion years old. However, we can't say we're in a cyclic universe with any certainty either, so if it was me, I wouldn't give you any grief on that particular point.

I will give them grief. With all we see right now and measure and know, there does not seem to be a cognition needed as a starting point. So why would infinite or finite need a cognition in any case. Our seasons come and go, and repeat. Stars are born and die constantly. I do not think any of this requires Jesus, or Allah or Thor.

To think of "all this" as being a product of a hand is demeaning to me. To think of all this as being one big weather pattern and crap shoot is amazing to me.

Finite vs infinite does not require a cognition in either case.

(April 14, 2014 at 8:21 pm)snowtracks Wrote:

(April 6, 2014 at 12:21 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: What are the other purposes?

per revelation - one purpose is that the universe provide a theater where God can demonstrate the destruction resulting from sin and evil

To whom will He demonstrate this to? Why is there even a need to do this in the first place?

(April 15, 2014 at 10:22 pm)snowtracks Wrote:

(April 15, 2014 at 10:50 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Snowtracks, I think what some folks are trying to say is that the universe could be much older, even eternal, if the universe is in a bang-crunch-bang-crunch cycle and we can only say with some certainty that this iteration of the unverse is over 13 billion years old. However, we can't say we're in a cyclic universe with any certainty either, so if it was me, I wouldn't give you any grief on that particular point.

well that was nice.

---

(April 14, 2014 at 10:49 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Congratulations! You've completely ignored the question, and parroted the same response twice!

You've won a brand new blindfold, and a lifetime subscription to Ignoramus magazine!




Ignoramus magazine: the only magazine subscription that lets you maintain a belief in a 6,000 year old universe and earth, and maintain that your holy book never changes even when it's completely wrong about basic facts! Accept the belief that the universe will end in 80 billion years, but maintain the belief that earth is only 6,000 years old? No problem! With Ignoramus magazine, any idiotic set of beliefs you desire to maintain are reasonable!

Act now, and we'll include a special edition copy of God Endorses Rape: How Can You Have Morality Without Him? For only $6.99 shipping and handling!

this one is posting like a hillside cretin. if you hold the same worldview as her, you might want to closely examine that view.

Actually - all one needs do it take the bible - and using statements of the bible - indicate what the god supposedly created - based on what is claimed in the bible - and then compare that to reality.

It does not take much to understand that the bible does not contain an accurate representation of what the Universe actually is. However - if YOU do the research - it is clear the stories of the bible are in line with the superstition and beliefs of the time of the ancient cave dwellers of their times. IE - human based beliefs - not god inspired truth.

IF the universe that exists - was accurately portrayed in the bible - that might be support the ideas of the religion - but in fact - it is simply not true - on a lot of levels.

So - we can clearly see what the universe the god supposedly created is described as - it just simply is NOT the actual one we live in.

So - in fact - the religion has NO answer to where the universe we actually live in came from as well.

And when the religious find the Universe described in the bible - they should go there.

(April 15, 2014 at 11:15 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:

(April 14, 2014 at 8:21 pm)snowtracks Wrote: per revelation - one purpose is that the universe provide a theater where God can demonstrate the destruction resulting from sin and evil

To whom will He demonstrate this to? Why is there even a need to do this in the first place?

Agreed. To think of ourselves as just simply being here for a God to make a demonstration, puts us in the position of being toys, property and lab rats.

If they are going to argue the existence of a God, I would be more forgiving if this god were not aware of our condition, but since the believer claims he is, that would not even make him a scientist studying humans, it would make him a big fucking prick. This God comes across more like a psychopathic kid who pulls the legs off of random insects just to watch them tortured while the others scramble to get away from him.

(April 15, 2014 at 11:15 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:

(April 14, 2014 at 8:21 pm)snowtracks Wrote: per revelation - one purpose is that the universe provide a theater where God can demonstrate the destruction resulting from sin and evil

To whom will He demonstrate this to? Why is there even a need to do this in the first place?

for spiritual beings: angels, human beings, God wished to show his attributes such as justice, forgiveness, mercy, and self-sacrifice for the benefit of another in a concrete form rather than in abstraction.
another reason God created the universe - to provide human beings with the preparation and training for their position in the new creation. After the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth (old testament promise), this universe will be completely destroyed with fire and will be replaced with one that will be absent sin and evil; and the current physical laws like entropy, (2'nd law of thermodynamics). people will have enjoyable and fulfilling work (no fatigue or drudgery associated with it) in the new creation which won't be under the curse of sin.

(April 18, 2014 at 1:51 am)snowtracks Wrote:

(April 15, 2014 at 11:15 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: To whom will He demonstrate this to? Why is there even a need to do this in the first place?

for spiritual beings: angels, human beings, God wished to show his attributes such as justice, forgiveness, mercy, and self-sacrifice for the benefit of another in a concrete form rather than in abstraction.

Now you're just making stuff up. What's your chapter and verse on this?

(April 18, 2014 at 11:02 am)rasetsu Wrote:

(April 18, 2014 at 1:51 am)snowtracks Wrote: for spiritual beings: angels, human beings, God wished to show his attributes such as justice, forgiveness, mercy, and self-sacrifice for the benefit of another in a concrete form rather than in abstraction.

Now you're just making stuff up. What's your chapter and verse on this?

angels learn the wisdom of God by observing people - the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms...eph 3
pretaining to salvation - even angels long to look into these things....1 peter

(April 18, 2014 at 10:46 pm)snowtracks Wrote:

(April 18, 2014 at 11:02 am)rasetsu Wrote:

(April 18, 2014 at 1:51 am)snowtracks Wrote:

(April 15, 2014 at 11:15 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: To whom will He demonstrate this to? Why is there even a need to do this in the first place?

for spiritual beings: angels, human beings, God wished to show his attributes such as justice, forgiveness, mercy, and self-sacrifice for the benefit of another in a concrete form rather than in abstraction.

Now you're just making stuff up. What's your chapter and verse on this?

angels learn the wisdom of God by observing people - the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms...eph 3
pretaining to salvation - even angels long to look into these things....1 peter

Ephesians 3 states that these matters were made known "dia tēs ekklēsias" or "through the church," not by concrete example in creation. That's an impressive feat of quote mining (and of the bible no less!), but sorry, it doesn't say anything about why God made creation. You made that bit up out of thin air. And I'm not going to read 1 Peter just to find yet another equally unimpressive example of quote mining.

(April 19, 2014 at 11:42 am)rasetsu Wrote:

(April 18, 2014 at 10:46 pm)snowtracks Wrote: angels learn the wisdom of God by observing people - the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms...eph 3
pretaining to salvation - even angels long to look into these things....1 peter

Ephesians 3 states that these matters were made known "dia tēs ekklēsias" or "through the church," not by concrete example in creation. That's an impressive feat of quote mining (and of the bible no less!), but sorry, it doesn't say anything about why God made creation. You made that bit up out of thin air. And I'm not going to read 1 Peter just to find yet another equally unimpressive example of quote mining.

you're right about the church.
need the universe to manifest the church.