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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:23 pm
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2014 at 4:24 pm by Heywood.)
(May 28, 2014 at 4:08 pm)One Above All Wrote: I am a gnostic (no; the space is not a typo) atheist. I am pro-life (in the true sense of the word: I think all life should be preserved, within reason. Most others who call themselves "pro-lifers" are actually "forced birthers": hey believe women should be forced to give birth, but, afterward, the baby can go to Hell for all they care) and pro-choice. Let me explain:
I think all life should be preserved, within reason. Therefore I do not approve of abortion. However, I do approve of women's right to choose to have an abortion. I believe this to be the most sensible option/opinion in this case.
What does "within reason" mean? In the event that your own life is at risk, I think you would be justified to kill some one (if they were threatening you) or some thing (if you needed nourishment, for example, or they were threatening you). Note that "justified" does not mean "right".
(May 28, 2014 at 4:13 pm)Losty Wrote: I am pro-life in this sense that I believe that all life should be preserved within reason.
I am pro-choice in the sense that I am no so arrogant as to think what I believe should have any bearing on what another woman does with the contents of her own uterus.
I've always felt that views like this are copouts.
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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:29 pm
(May 28, 2014 at 4:23 pm)Heywood Wrote: (May 28, 2014 at 4:13 pm)Losty Wrote: I am pro-life in this sense that I believe that all life should be preserved within reason.
I am pro-choice in the sense that I am no so arrogant as to think what I believe should have any bearing on what another woman does with the contents of her own uterus.
I've always felt that views like this are copouts.
I honestly don't care how you feel about my choice to respect other people's right to make their own decisions.
I would like to continue our conversation from last night though.
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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:29 pm
Care to explain or do you just want to leave it like that?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:32 pm
(May 28, 2014 at 4:23 pm)Heywood Wrote: (May 28, 2014 at 4:08 pm)One Above All Wrote: I am a gnostic (no; the space is not a typo) atheist. I am pro-life (in the true sense of the word: I think all life should be preserved, within reason. Most others who call themselves "pro-lifers" are actually "forced birthers": hey believe women should be forced to give birth, but, afterward, the baby can go to Hell for all they care) and pro-choice. Let me explain:
I think all life should be preserved, within reason. Therefore I do not approve of abortion. However, I do approve of women's right to choose to have an abortion. I believe this to be the most sensible option/opinion in this case.
What does "within reason" mean? In the event that your own life is at risk, I think you would be justified to kill some one (if they were threatening you) or some thing (if you needed nourishment, for example, or they were threatening you). Note that "justified" does not mean "right".
(May 28, 2014 at 4:13 pm)Losty Wrote: I am pro-life in this sense that I believe that all life should be preserved within reason.
I am pro-choice in the sense that I am no so arrogant as to think what I believe should have any bearing on what another woman does with the contents of her own uterus.
I've always felt that views like this are copouts.
And I've always felt that dismissive statements such as that are copouts when they don't address what is being said.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:36 pm
(May 28, 2014 at 4:29 pm)Losty Wrote: (May 28, 2014 at 4:23 pm)Heywood Wrote: I've always felt that views like this are copouts.
I honestly don't care how you feel about my choice to respect other people's right to make their own decisions.
I would like to continue our conversation from last night though.
What is there to talk about? I am not convinced the baby had to be killed to save the woman's life. You are convinced that it did.
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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:38 pm
(May 28, 2014 at 4:36 pm)Heywood Wrote: (May 28, 2014 at 4:29 pm)Losty Wrote: I honestly don't care how you feel about my choice to respect other people's right to make their own decisions.
I would like to continue our conversation from last night though.
What is there to talk about? I am not convinced the baby had to be killed to save the woman's life. You are convinced that it did.
But why aren't you convinced Heywood? You asked me a question and I answered it. I want to know where the question was going.
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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:38 pm
(May 28, 2014 at 4:32 pm)Beccs Wrote: (May 28, 2014 at 4:23 pm)Heywood Wrote: I've always felt that views like this are copouts.
And I've always felt that dismissive statements such as that are copouts when they don't address what is being said.
The position is inconsistent. Its like they are trying to be pro-life and pro-abortion at the same time. Either a fetus has the same right to life as anyone else or it doesn't.
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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:39 pm
(May 28, 2014 at 4:23 pm)Heywood Wrote: (May 28, 2014 at 4:08 pm)One Above All Wrote: I am a gnostic (no; the space is not a typo) atheist. I am pro-life (in the true sense of the word: I think all life should be preserved, within reason. Most others who call themselves "pro-lifers" are actually "forced birthers": hey believe women should be forced to give birth, but, afterward, the baby can go to Hell for all they care) and pro-choice. Let me explain:
I think all life should be preserved, within reason. Therefore I do not approve of abortion. However, I do approve of women's right to choose to have an abortion. I believe this to be the most sensible option/opinion in this case.
What does "within reason" mean? In the event that your own life is at risk, I think you would be justified to kill some one (if they were threatening you) or some thing (if you needed nourishment, for example, or they were threatening you). Note that "justified" does not mean "right".
(May 28, 2014 at 4:13 pm)Losty Wrote: I am pro-life in this sense that I believe that all life should be preserved within reason.
I am pro-choice in the sense that I am no so arrogant as to think what I believe should have any bearing on what another woman does with the contents of her own uterus.
I've always felt that views like this are copouts.
I've always felt that saying "this is a copout" without explaining why it is a copout, is a copout.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:41 pm
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2014 at 4:43 pm by Losty.)
(May 28, 2014 at 4:38 pm)Heywood Wrote: (May 28, 2014 at 4:32 pm)Beccs Wrote: And I've always felt that dismissive statements such as that are copouts when they don't address what is being said.
The position is inconsistent. Its like they are trying to be pro-life and pro-abortion at the same time. Either a fetus has the same right to life as anyone else or it doesn't.
I do not, have not, not will I ever take a pro-life or pro-abortion stance. I am not pro-life in the political sense of the word. I am not not pro-abortion and I've never met anyone who is. All I was saying is that I prefer to separate my personal beliefs from my political opinions.
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RE: Pro-life atheists
May 28, 2014 at 4:44 pm
(May 28, 2014 at 4:38 pm)Heywood Wrote: The position is inconsistent. Its like they are trying to be pro-life and pro-abortion at the same time. Either a fetus has the same right to life as anyone else or it doesn't.
Foetuses do have the same rights as everyone else. It is illegal for an adult to violate a persons bodily rights, the same rule applies with foetuses.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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