(May 29, 2014 at 4:41 am)Godschild Wrote: I believe it was because Adam and Eve were the first people and no one else could carry on the line, th Bible says nothing about any children until after the fall.

The JWs saw it this way also, that imperfection became an inherited trait and without a perfect human to prove that it was possible to remain loyal to god under any circumstance, there was no way to change this. Hence Christ being referred to as a redeemer of mankind; unless someone perfect stepped up, humanity was in a death spiral of sorts.

I have issues with that concept also, but I also find myself short on time this past few days and at least the upcoming week. I am satisfied with your answers to the other questions and thank you for an interesting discussion of the issue. I might be able to pick it up later in June.

(May 29, 2014 at 8:48 am)Tonus Wrote:

(May 29, 2014 at 4:41 am)Godschild Wrote: I believe it was because Adam and Eve were the first people and no one else could carry on the line, th Bible says nothing about any children until after the fall.

The JWs saw it this way also, that imperfection became an inherited trait and without a perfect human to prove that it was possible to remain loyal to god under any circumstance, there was no way to change this. Hence Christ being referred to as a redeemer of mankind; unless someone perfect stepped up, humanity was in a death spiral of sorts.

I have issues with that concept also, but I also find myself short on time this past few days and at least the upcoming week. I am satisfied with your answers to the other questions and thank you for an interesting discussion of the issue. I might be able to pick it up later in June.

I have enjoyed this conversation very much and you have brought up somethings I need to think about and try to investigate. I thank you for this sensible conversation and don't feel like you need to continue this conversation, hoping for some others with you in the future.

Gc

(May 22, 2014 at 12:56 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Is Eve, from the Adam and Eve story, in hell right now?

She disobeyed god and started the whole sin trend in humans, so did god put her in an everlasting lake of fire?

If she repented, and god forgave and decided that he did want her to live with him forever why did he continue to expel her from his garden and continue to condemn her children?

If she is in hell, does she really deserve it? 6000 years of torture is a pretty stiff sentence served for unwittingly listening to another supreme being that you had no previous reasons to mistrust.

The fairy tale of Adam and EVE is Just that - Even most xtian religious sects - starting with Catholics - admit that the story is at most an allegory - and it does not have to be believed as literally true.

There was NO EVE - there was NO Adam - no snake - no garden of Eden - no proven god - and No hell (there is no hell in the old testament and it is not a belief of Judaism) the story is nothing more than a childrens story - and Humpty Dumpty isn't real either.

The problem with stories written by ancient goat herders and cave dwellers is that they did no think the thing through enough to realize that there are LOTS of holes in the stories that intelligent people from the 21st century can easily identify.

Ask yourself - WHY is it that cheating on your spouse is a MAIN law -of god - but RAPING a person against their will is not?

Hard questions are unfair.

Just want to point out that Humpty Dumpty certainly did exist - the rhyme is a parody of the fall of either the devastating cannon at Colchester Cathedral during the English Civil War, Charles I himself, or Richard III at Bosworth; though the latter two are less likely explanations. What we call nursery rhymes often have darker and/or satirical origins.

(June 1, 2014 at 7:30 pm)ThomM Wrote:

(May 22, 2014 at 12:56 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Is Eve, from the Adam and Eve story, in hell right now?

She disobeyed god and started the whole sin trend in humans, so did god put her in an everlasting lake of fire?
..

..
The problem with stories written by ancient goat herders and cave dwellers is that they did no think the thing through enough to realize that there are LOTS of holes in the stories that intelligent people from the 21st century can easily identify.

Ask yourself - WHY is it that cheating on your spouse is a MAIN law -of god - but RAPING a person against their will is not?

This exposes the misogyny of the ancient middle-eastern men that wrote the bible.

The reason a woman cheating on you is worse is because she is supposed to be your loyal property, like a well behaving cow. Her feelings or opinions weren't even recognized by men of that era. If the owner or current possessor of the woman wanted to stick his dick into her, he could unfettered, and she had no more say in the matter than a teenage boy's sock.

I hate the title of this thread, it's like asking if Scrooge McDuck is in hell right now. What about Lilith? Or Isis or Thor?

What if we find out Harry Potter sank the Titanic? What if pink unicorns exist?

Wander down their yellow brick road if you feel the need. But having been at this online for 13 years I have no patience for it. Before you get to word one of any ancient comic book it still starts with the naked assertion of a fictional invisible sky hero.

To me it is like arguing over the the Merits of Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader.

I always fall prey to these kinds of topics. See, I love to discuss fiction. Mass Effect, Star Wars, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, religion...

(May 22, 2014 at 12:56 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Is Eve, from the Adam and Eve story, in hell right now?

She disobeyed god and started the whole sin trend in humans, so did god put her in an everlasting lake of fire?

If she repented, and god forgave and decided that he did want her to live with him forever why did he continue to expel her from his garden and continue to condemn her children?

If she is in hell, does she really deserve it? 6000 years of torture is a pretty stiff sentence served for unwittingly listening to another supreme being that you had no previous reasons to mistrust.

According to Islamic doctrine the majority of people in hell will be women. Eve was a woman. Therefore chances are she will be in hell. Adam was a man, Chances are he will be in paradise with a herd of virgins.

Virgin men ?

How does that work?


I'm confused now


hock: