(June 6, 2014 at 11:03 am)mickiel Wrote: I have read the rules, I am doing my best with what I understand. If you do not like the way I debate, then I can withdraw my threads and move on.

You're not breaking any rules, Mickiel

I'm just asking for further elucidations on your points so we can continue. Who you reply to and what you say is up to you. However, if you want some clarification on what we expect from people when debating (atheists and theists), please refer to the rules in my signature vvvvvvv

(June 6, 2014 at 10:58 am)mickiel Wrote:

(June 6, 2014 at 10:51 am)ThePinsir Wrote: " I do not believe atheism would exist without god, I really don't."

Oh? Why not?

" I cannot see then theism arising out of a world of atheism."

I can, quite simply actually. Theism, I'd assert, arises out of two or three things: 1) a fear of death 2) a need to explain unknown events/things (like your entire thread) 3) a means of controlling people

There may be more, and I certainly don't want to present any sort of a false dichotomy. But come one, bro (or sis, idk lol). Humans have invented like 40,000 gods - and you can't see how theism can arise on its own?

No, I can't see it. Minds completely unconscious of a god or gods, why and how would consciousness of a god emerge?

Well on second thought, if you accept that consciousness could emerge from absolute nothing, then I understand you're rationale.

What's nothingness?

How is consciousness as a beneficial trait of social animals "arising from nothing"?

If what you say I true, why do animals exhibit conscious behavior?

http://youtu.be/genaPkf99bY

Why do animals exhibit moral behavior?
http://youtu.be/GcJxRqTs5nk

(June 6, 2014 at 11:11 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(June 6, 2014 at 11:03 am)mickiel Wrote: I have read the rules, I am doing my best with what I understand. If you do not like the way I debate, then I can withdraw my threads and move on.

You're not breaking any rules, Mickiel

I'm just asking for further elucidations on your points so we can continue. Who you reply to and what you say is up to you. However, if you want some clarification on what we expect from people when debating (atheists and theists), please refer to the rules in my signature vvvvvvv

Okay, don't use caps, don't say " I Think or In my view", and elucidate more. Alright, I'll do my best to comply.

(June 6, 2014 at 10:58 am)mickiel Wrote: In my view, there is no need for cursing. It ruins a good point.

Bullshit! You love when other people curse. It gives you a convenient escape hatch when your ridiculous arguments are sent through the wood chipper.

(June 6, 2014 at 11:15 am)mickiel Wrote:

(June 6, 2014 at 11:11 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: You're not breaking any rules, Mickiel

I'm just asking for further elucidations on your points so we can continue. Who you reply to and what you say is up to you. However, if you want some clarification on what we expect from people when debating (atheists and theists), please refer to the rules in my signature vvvvvvv

Okay, don't use caps, don't say " I Think or In my view", and elucidate more. Alright, I'll do my best to comply.

No no, sorry, I think you're misunderstanding me.

It was a personal request for you to not use 'I think' or indeed use caps. It's a personal request based on our physical debate between you and me

Even by using caps and by saying things like 'I think' you're not breaking any rules. It could be that you think I'm talking in a capacity as a moderator but I'm not. You don't have to follow it. IT was just because I thought it discredited your argument in the context in which you were speaking.

If I'm talking as a mod i'll say things like [modhat] Please don't do that[/modhat]

If you're confused about anything please read the rules else get in touch with either me or one of the other staff and we'll be happy to help out

(June 6, 2014 at 11:11 am)Rampant.A.I. Wrote:

(June 6, 2014 at 10:58 am)mickiel Wrote: No, I can't see it. Minds completely unconscious of a god or gods, why and how would consciousness of a god emerge?

Well on second thought, if you accept that consciousness could emerge from absolute nothing, then I understand you're rationale.

What's nothingness?

How is consciousness as a beneficial trait of social animals "arising from nothing"?

If what you say I true, why do animals exhibit conscious behavior?

http://youtu.be/genaPkf99bY

Why do animals exhibit moral behavior?
http://youtu.be/GcJxRqTs5nk

By nothingness I mean the "theory" that all things came from nothing; a black hole in space, a big bang in the nothing we call space, or life began in a magical worm hole that suddenly appear from what was not there before. Something cannot come from nothing, it did not happen like that. Even an explosion cannot occur without established reasons for it to occur. And big bang explosion do not create matter, it destroys matter.

And animals are not conscious, as we are conscious; they are very limited in their ability to think and reason, but they have excellent instincts. Again which points to a creator.

---

(June 6, 2014 at 11:19 am)Cato Wrote:

(June 6, 2014 at 10:58 am)mickiel Wrote: In my view, there is no need for cursing. It ruins a good point.

Bullshit! You love when other people curse. It gives you a convenient escape hatch when your ridiculous arguments are sent through the wood chipper.

Cursing takes away from language, and our respect for language. Its why more and more teens curse, because more and more adults curse; in this manner we slowly reduce the human language and fill it with negative nonsense. Cursing has hurt our language more than religion.

(June 6, 2014 at 11:22 am)mickiel Wrote: Cursing has hurt our language more than religion.

Utter fucking bollocks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM

(June 6, 2014 at 11:22 am)mickiel Wrote: By nothingness I mean the "theory" that all things came from nothing; a black hole in space, a big bang in the nothing we call space, or life began in a magical worm hole that suddenly appear from what was not there before. Something cannot come from nothing, it did not happen like that. Even an explosion cannot occur without established reasons for it to occur. And big bang explosion do not create matter, it destroys matter.

And animals are not conscious, as we are conscious; they are very limited in their ability to think and reason, but they have excellent instincts. Again which points to a creator.

No one ever said life began in a magical wormhole. What kind of bull crap are your reading?

The "big bang" was not an explosion in the normal sense. It wasn't an explosion at all, but a state of really rapid expansion.

Something can come from nothing, yo. Dr. Laurence Krauss wrote a book called "A Universe From Nothing" that explains very well how you can get something from nothing, and in fact will always get something from nothing. It's like 175 pages, you can read it in one weekend.

The fact that we are "more conscious" than most animals is because we have bigger brains. No creator necessary. Again, that view is incredibly anthro-centric.

But even if your points were valid (they're not), it's still nothing but a God of the Gaps argument. "I don't understand X, therefore god did it".

(June 6, 2014 at 11:22 am)mickiel Wrote: By nothingness I mean the "theory" that all things came from nothing; a black hole in space, a big bang in the nothing we call space, or life began in a magical worm hole that suddenly appear from what was not there before. Something cannot come from nothing, it did not happen like that. Even an explosion cannot occur without established reasons for it to occur. And big bang explosion do not create matter, it destroys matter.

First of all, whoever is giving you this info on the Big Bang is waaaaay off the mark. This isn't anything close to what is described at the beginning.
As was said above, a very quick Google search, even to Wikipedia, will give you give you significantly more accurate information on what the current ideas are.

(June 6, 2014 at 11:22 am)mickiel Wrote: And animals are not conscious, as we are conscious; they are very limited in their ability to think and reason, but they have excellent instincts. Again which points to a creator.

Sure, humans have a uniquely high level of consciousness, but consciousness in itself is far from unique to humans. Many animals, especially highly intelligent ones, show completely unique and distinct personalities. Something which requires at least a small amount consciousness and maybe even some self-awareness.

(June 6, 2014 at 11:15 am)mickiel Wrote: Okay, don't use caps, don't say " I Think or In my view", and elucidate more. Alright, I'll do my best to comply.

It's not a matter of the words you're using, man. The problem is that you're mistaking your opinions for facts; people can think a lot of things, thoughts aren't at all dependent on reality. The fact that you think these things doesn't make them true, and it also doesn't constitute evidence; it's just what you decided to go with. Objective demonstration is how you'll excel, here.

Are you familiar with the fallacies people here have been calling you on? The argument from ignorance and argument from personal incredulity? If not, I'd suggest looking them up, as unfortunately for you your entire position is based around them.