(June 9, 2014 at 1:44 pm)mickiel Wrote: I think jesus was from god, no doubt. I do not believe jesus is god; god is god, jersus is jesus; the importance of jesus is his sacrifice, his death for humanities sins. Because of that, all of us will be with god. Why god wanted us to be born in flesh, suffer and die, THEN be born again into his spirit world, I have little idea. But jesus was a key to us being able to be put in this giant incubator, ( earth), and then maturing inside of this giant womb with all its acids, and then be delivered by god. Its now a birthright that includes ALL atheist, no one is left out.

You're not the first person to reject the belief that Jesus is part of a trinity but you do have some interesting ideas. I shall still carry on being an atheist because the proof you present isn't convincing as far as I'm concerned. I'm guessing that's it's convincing to you, though, because you happen to believe in it and you can't understand why we reject what you see as proof.

Not all atheists in this forum have been atheists all their lives. Some of them were believers until they concluded that convincing evidence for the existence of God and Jesus is lacking.

(June 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm)Confused Ape Wrote:

(June 9, 2014 at 1:44 pm)mickiel Wrote: I think jesus was from god, no doubt. I do not believe jesus is god; god is god, jersus is jesus; the importance of jesus is his sacrifice, his death for humanities sins. Because of that, all of us will be with god. Why god wanted us to be born in flesh, suffer and die, THEN be born again into his spirit world, I have little idea. But jesus was a key to us being able to be put in this giant incubator, ( earth), and then maturing inside of this giant womb with all its acids, and then be delivered by god. Its now a birthright that includes ALL atheist, no one is left out.

You're not the first person to reject the belief that Jesus is part of a trinity but you do have some interesting ideas. As belief in your God is optional, I shall carry on being an atheist and live as good a life as I can. The reason why I shall carry on being an atheist is that the proof you present isn't convincing as far as I'm concerned. I'm guessing that's it's convincing to you, though, because you happen to believe in it and you can't understand why we reject what you see as proof.

Not all atheists in this forum have been atheists all their lives. Some of them were believers until they concluded that convincing evidence for the existence of God and Jesus is lacking.

Oh no I understand why you reject it, you're supposed to. Its you're time to reject it; where I differ with Christianity, is that rejection is meaningless to god, because he has you rejecting him. He wants you there, thus that rejection is NOT condemnation for you; its karma; its position; its destiny. I do not view atheism as evil, nor as a thing from the devil. NO! I see god as its source, as he is the source of theism as well.

But you do believe in the devil?

(June 6, 2014 at 9:08 am)mickiel Wrote: No, things in our reality are too deliberate , the earth was obviously well suited for humans.

It's more likely that Humans were well suited for the Earth, and so developed and evolved within its tolerances.

(June 9, 2014 at 1:06 pm)mickiel Wrote:

(June 9, 2014 at 1:00 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: How about you post just one thing that actually counts as evidence? You would have to be able to explain WHY it favors theism over nontheism, that is, back it up rather than just claiming it's evidence. Just one thing. What you consider your very strongest bit of evidence, just back up that one little bit. Can you do that? Can you even try?

I did already, I started with consciousness and tried to stay on it individually, but the tide here swept that attempt away, just as you just swept away a whole page of evidence I listed on another site. I mean its a good thing I can copy it and post it here, just saves the time of me re-writing it all over again.

You claimed consciousness is evidence of God, you did not support that claim, and still haven't. Why don't you try to do that?

(June 9, 2014 at 1:57 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(June 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm)mickiel Wrote: First they ask for sources, now its back on me; interesting. I already gave my personal example with " The Dimes." Remember finding 100 dimes on the ground, perfectly balanced on their edges, aligned. That can only be deliberately done. We theist view that deliberance as proof; the order in the universe and in the physical world is deliberate. Intentional. You believe and accept the opposite; to you its luck; unintentional and random.

1. What does the above have to do with either ontological arguments for god's existence or the article you cited.

2. How do you know what I do or don't believe? I can't remember ever telling you anything about that?

Mick, I'm not going to lie, it's coming across that you actually lied about knowing anything about ontology and that, subsequently, everything else you've posted is a lie.

One more shot. Show your working, your research, into your studies on ontology. I don't want a simple post to an article that shows nothing aside the fact you can google ontology. I want your understanding and how your research into ontology has revealed its support for gods existence. You said you've researched it, but you haven't shown us anything that proves that.

I have not lied, Ontology IS the attempt to prove god exist! I have given pages and pages of those attempts; they have been REJECTED! You are rejecting my Ontology. And have the nerve to say I am lying about this. Ontology is does god exist, does he have being. And then to prove that with reason; something reasonable, not religious. And The simple dime example IS REASON! SIMPLE reason! You just cannot see its reason, its ontology.

I'll give another. Life can only produce life. Plain and simple reason! No scientist can produce life in a lab from scratch; using nothing. Its impossible, and yet the scientific theories on how life began, is requesting that we begin with the impossible. Using life as coming from a god of life, is FAR more reasonable.

Now better for you to continue to ignore my reason and call me a lie, than to actually debate my reason, because NONE of you have yet to carry on a single debate against any of my points, just my personage and things about me. A few of you have ASKED me to focus on one issue, but then they revert back to personal attacks when I respond.

This ain't about me.

---

(June 9, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Losty Wrote: But you do believe in the devil?

Yes. I believe god created the thing too.

(June 9, 2014 at 1:10 pm)mickiel Wrote: This is my research, not a google;

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/genera...l-113.html

When it comes to evidence, quality is far more important than quantity. One piece of well-supported evidence is infinitely more valuable than a great pile of fallacies and non sequiturs.

(June 9, 2014 at 2:44 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(June 9, 2014 at 1:06 pm)mickiel Wrote: I did already, I started with consciousness and tried to stay on it individually, but the tide here swept that attempt away, just as you just swept away a whole page of evidence I listed on another site. I mean its a good thing I can copy it and post it here, just saves the time of me re-writing it all over again.

You claimed consciousness is evidence of God, you did not support that claim, and still haven't. Why don't you try to do that?

Oh I did, for two pages, just not to you're satisfaction; its impossible to satisfy atheist cynicism.

---

(June 9, 2014 at 2:48 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(June 9, 2014 at 1:10 pm)mickiel Wrote: This is my research, not a google;

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/genera...l-113.html

When it comes to evidence, quality is far more important than quantity. One piece of well-supported evidence is infinitely more valuable than a great pile of fallacies and non sequiturs.

I gave the evidence, you reject it or say its too much or not magnified enough. You pick one, others here have tried that, " Focus on one " as an excuse; it does not work. But I will still do that with any of you.

(June 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm)mickiel Wrote: Why are you reading what a nut case has to say??

Well, duh. I have to evaluate the evidence for nutcasedness (new word). It is plentifull in this thread by you to yourself. Stil no way to know a god.

(June 9, 2014 at 2:46 pm)mickiel Wrote:

(June 9, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Losty Wrote: But you do believe in the devil?

Yes. I believe god created the thing too.

I'm sorry if I missed this and you already said, but what about Jesus? Son of god or no?