(June 10, 2014 at 7:38 am)archangle Wrote: I think that if we didnt have mirrors we could use our description of god in the bible to have a look at ourselves.

As in projecting human qualities and emotions onto the god of the Bible?

(June 10, 2014 at 8:25 am)Confused Ape Wrote:

(June 10, 2014 at 7:38 am)archangle Wrote: I think that if we didnt have mirrors we could use our description of god in the bible to have a look at ourselves.

As in projecting human qualities and emotions onto the god of the Bible?

Yes. if we are be reasonable about that is. Then look at the individual human describing the god. We will see the true person. Then get them drunk as all get out to confirm the conclusion.

(June 10, 2014 at 2:58 am)Stimbo Wrote: It's interesting how we haven't seen them together in the same thread, isn't it?

Please, don't try to manipulate an association between me and a hell monger. I am not Christian, mainly because I reject over 70& of their doctrines, this insane eternal hell torture is one of them, and atheist being condemned is another. Every atheist who ever lived and died was covered by the death of Christ, their salvation is based on that, not their predestined rejection of god.

I will deal with him myself. I got just as much in store for him, if he can take it, as I do for the atheist here. I am guessing the atheist here are strong enough to take it, because I am going to bang harder each week; I noticed some of you are bowing out already;

can't say I blame you, some of you can sense what's coming; but first I am going to cripple you're often used shield of " Give me proof and evidence", you're get out of conversation, ( or jail card free), rehearsed request , that when given, you get lame about and use it again anyway; thinking all proof must be scientific, when all proof is no such limited thing.

And I am going to go into that.

My name is Michael Lesueur, email is listed on site, I post only under the name Mickiel; I need no alter ego to get this truth out. I believe in being for real.

You just get ready, because I am going to seriously push your trump card defense of asking for proof, asking for things that when you get it, you are pre primed to reject it any way.

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(June 9, 2014 at 11:40 pm)Eye of God Wrote:

(June 9, 2014 at 7:02 pm)mickiel Wrote: I don't believe in that jesus, I believe in the one who came here for ALL humans and is not going to leave any out. I do not adhere to the Christian view of jesus.

So you're a 'customized' christian. You're like the worst thing imaginable in the eyes of our Creator. You pick and choose the parts you like and ignore the laws of God. You lead these atheists further from salvation with your lies and your dirty compromises. Your punishment will likely be far greater than theirs because you ruin the name of Jesus Christ and the gift he has given.

I am not a Christian period, and you are one example why. I don't want to think like you do about god.
I give you one chance to walk away from this; if you refuse, I am going to do you worse than I am going to do the atheist.

And pagan Christianity deserves the worst. It is you who have distorted the word of god, not the atheist.

What a fucking dolt! Your evasion and misunderstanding of what constitutes evidence is proof of my claim.

I am linking the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy's entry on evidence. Why don't you spend some time with it and come back after you've learned something.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evidence/

(June 10, 2014 at 12:00 am)Esquilax Wrote: Mickie, I'll do you an enormous favor by ignoring the utter pretension you've shown over the past few pages and just focus on a couple of arguments in quick succession that caught my attention.

First, in your last reply to me you admit that "I don't know" answers are a legitimate course for us as much as they are for you; doesn't that completely capsize your claim that consciousness couldn't have evolved? Right now, the answer to the question of consciousness, as it is for the origins of the universe, life, and a lot of the other things you've attributed to god, would be better fitted to an "I don't know" answer, from all of us, and that's it. Because the truth is, you don't know the answer to those questions either, you're just pretending you do because you've got a pre-drawn conclusion you want to fit it all into. But now that we're allowing the correct answer- that nobody knows- into this, there's no excuse to be pushing god into those gaps in our knowledge. That's you not playing by the rules you want to set for everyone else.

I don't know the answers to those questions, and neither do you. That's it. Full stop.

Right?

(Be warned, if you say you do know, I'll be expecting an exhaustive, fully explanatory answer from you about how god crafted consciousness, the universe, and life. Because those are "how" questions, and just providing a "what" answer won't do, even if you could support it with evidence, which you haven't so far.)

As to your claims about animals not having consciousness, you're mistaking intelligence for consciousness. Just because animals aren't intelligent enough to speak our language- and hell, that's a bit arrogant of you, expecting that they either speak in a human tongue or they can't communicate at all, isn't it?- doesn't mean they aren't conscious; hell, there are plenty of humans who couldn't tell you half the things in your list for one reason or another, are they not conscious either?

The science demonstrates consciousness: what business do you have outright denying that?

Oh, and I know I said I wouldn't mention it, but please, stop with the poetry.

The request for me to stop the poetry is denied. Now, give me an exhaustive full explinatory reason why animals are conscious.

(June 10, 2014 at 9:01 am)Cato Wrote: What a fucking dolt! Your evasion and misunderstanding of what constitutes evidence is proof of my claim.

I am linking the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy's entry on evidence. Why don't you spend some time with it and come back after you've learned something.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evidence/

lmao ... if we need references as proof then maybe we, or the person that needs it, should shut the fuk up.

Talk about a dope. I didn't know until recently that it is considered kind of normal to have two accounts to berate somebody. A guy named tee-no taught me that. But I have limits. It aint all about me I guess.

(June 10, 2014 at 9:05 am)mickiel Wrote: The request for me to stop the poetry is denied. Now, give me an exhaustive full explinatory reason why animals are conscious.

So, we're just going to dodge around my contentions regarding "I don't know"? I'd really like a response to that.

As to animals being conscious... they just are, by any reasonable definition. Animals can reason, they can learn, they can be taught, they can think and communicate amongst themselves; what more do you want? How are you defining consciousness?

Chimpanzees can even be taught to communicate through sign language. I'm not going to sit here and say that every animal is conscious because that'd be a gross oversimplification, but some are, even if they don't display the same level of intelligence as us humans. Let me ask you this: a human being with a developmental disorder, would you say they're still conscious? I mean, is this something you're defining along species lines to begin with, or is it a question of intellect rather than species?

That, plus the "I don't know" thing, please.

(June 10, 2014 at 8:51 am)mickiel Wrote: You just get ready, because I am going to seriously push your trump card defense of asking for proof, asking for things that when you get it, you are pre primed to reject it any way.

So why bother? According to your beliefs, God wants us to be atheists and reject everything you regard as proof. I'd still like to ask you a few more questions, though, because I'm interested in what people believe.

How did you come to your unorthodox beliefs? Did you start out as a conventional sort of Christian before going your own way or were you an atheist who discovered personal meaning in the Bible?

(June 10, 2014 at 8:51 am)mickiel Wrote: I give you one chance to walk away from this; if you refuse, I am going to do you worse than I am going to do the atheist.

What, you're only going to bloody one of his fists with your face?

(June 9, 2014 at 4:56 pm)mickiel Wrote:

(June 9, 2014 at 3:18 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I'm an optimist. I'm incredibly easy to satisfy. The right words from the right person, and I'm right back in church, working hard to convince myself of the reality of God.

Out of those two pages, what do you think was your best point in support of consciousness being evidence of God rather than natural processes?

I don't go to church, nor do I try and inspire others to attend.

Is someone shooting you up with heroin every time you respond to the least relevant part of a post instead of the question that was asked? Because that would explain a lot.

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(June 9, 2014 at 5:57 pm)mickiel Wrote: No it does not; god gave himself consciousness; I just can't explain how. The bible describes god as " The beginning and the end", so we can say he has to have some kind of " Eternal beginning", but I doubt VERY seriously if he will ever reveal just how such an impossible thing could be. He IS the beginning, not the big bang, the big god! He IS the fiber of existence and the first of it.

I sure can't explain it.

If you have to believe someting impossible and unexplainable to maintain your opinion, maybe you have the wrong opinion.

(June 9, 2014 at 4:50 pm)mickiel Wrote: Oh and thank you for withdrawing your cursing, I will be sure to honor you're every post from now on.

Peace.

That's nice, but for the record, I don't think he has ever curesed at you, so he had nothing to withdraw.