(June 11, 2014 at 8:57 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: I mod the shit out of the game - is that what you wanted to hear? - and it still has issues. So what? It still captures my imagination and engages my brain.

So you're not even playing the vanilla game, and have a go at me for saying the vanilla game is overrated? Seriously?

Quote:It still captures my imagination and engages my brain. - even the vanilla version which glitches out on the Xbox, which I still sometimes play.

But you clearly don't love at as much as you do using it with mods? Right?

Quote:Discussion, maybe, argument, no - you and I have hashed out on other threads why I love the game so much - if you've forgotten those discussions, then I'd be happy to list many points again for you.

This isn't about who loves the game more. You love the game. I get it. I do too. You may not think so but I genuinely think Skyrim is a fantastic game. The only difference between myself and you seems to be that I will acknowledge that its many flaws make it overrated. You obviously don't think so. Objectively speaking though, considering the hype the game had, considering the perfect 10/10 scores it has anywhere, and taking into account the kinds of flaws it has, how anyone can say this game isn't overrated is simply laughable.

I will repeat what I said earlier, you're looking at the game through rose-tinted glasses.

Quote:

(June 11, 2014 at 8:48 am)Napoléon Wrote: If you didn't want me to react with my opinion on the matter then you shouldn't of quoted me and chimed in with yours. Tit for tat darlin'.

I don't think I ever indicated that I wanted to hear only my opinion.

Who's putting words in who's mouth now? Where did I say you did?

*edited grammar

I always look at ratings as whether or not its something worth the money. To me a 10/10 is a game that you will play and enjoy so much that its entirely worth buying for £40. I think the content, immersion and replay-ability more than compensates for the glitches in my experience. I'd give it a 10/10 but I can understand why others might give it a 9. Ratings are so subjective with people having such varying tolerances for issues, enjoyment for the genre and what platform they play.

This.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:14 am)Insanity Wrote: I always look at ratings as whether or not its something worth the money.

That's fair enough if you're looking at it from a customer point of view. But in reality most game review websites don't mark it on this premise. Not only that, but if they did you'd be seeing so many more games receiving 10/10 scores.

Also, game reviews aren't the only thing that make a game overrated.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:14 am)Insanity Wrote: I always look at ratings as whether or not its something worth the money. To me a 10/10 is a game that you will play and enjoy so much that its entirely worth buying for £40. I think the content, immersion and replay-ability more than compensates for the glitches in my experience. I'd give it a 10/10 but I can understand why others might give it a 9. Ratings are so subjective with people having such varying tolerances for issues, enjoyment for the genre and what platform they play.

This, pretty much in a nutshell.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:12 am)Napoléon Wrote: So you're not even playing the vanilla game, and have a go at me for saying the vanilla game is overrated? Seriously?

Not at all.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:12 am)Napoléon Wrote: But you clearly don't love at as much as you do using it with mods? Right?

Also not at all. I use the mods on the laptop to fix glitches and because "I can" - I play the vanilla game on the xbox because I adore it. Hundreds of hours later, I still find stuff I have never seen before in the vanilla game.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:12 am)Napoléon Wrote: This isn't about who loves the game more.

I didn't say it was.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:12 am)Napoléon Wrote: The only difference between myself and you seems to be that I will acknowledge that its many flaws make it overrated. You obviously don't think so. Objectively speaking though, considering the hype the game had, considering the perfect 10/10 scores it has anywhere, and taking into account the kinds of flaws it has, how can anyone say this game isn't overrated is simply laughable.

And again, I say that's subjective.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:12 am)Napoléon Wrote: I will repeat what I said earlier, you're looking at the game through rose-tinted glasses.

Hardly - I complain about shit in that game all the time on FB.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:12 am)Napoléon Wrote: Who's putting words in who's mouth now? Where did I say you did?

Dude, reread what you said.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:28 am)Napoléon Wrote: That's fair enough if you're looking at it from a customer point of view. But in reality most game review websites don't mark it on this premise. Not only that, but if they did you'd be seeing so many more games receiving 10/10 scores.

Sometimes. Considering a lot of the game companies would not allow them review copies if they were too harsh they are obviously going to airbrush games in the reviews.

I don't think too many games would get a 10/10 for the £40 when most new games are 4-5 hours of generic blow shit up.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:28 am)Napoléon Wrote: Also, game reviews aren't the only thing that make a game overrated.

That was what I thought this thread was mostly about rather than website reviews. The general attitude to games rather than how they live up to scores. Thats why I made that post when it was getting to be about if Skyrim lives up to a 10/10 or not.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:28 am)thesummerqueen Wrote:

(June 11, 2014 at 9:12 am)Napoléon Wrote: The only difference between myself and you seems to be that I will acknowledge that its many flaws make it overrated. You obviously don't think so. Objectively speaking though, considering the hype the game had, considering the perfect 10/10 scores it has anywhere, and taking into account the kinds of flaws it has, how can anyone say this game isn't overrated is simply laughable.

And again, I say that's subjective.

The scores are, perhaps. Whether or not it is objectively overrated on the back of those scores is not.

All I've been talking about throughout this thread is games objectively. Whether or not they are overhyped and overrated, objectively.

There's always an element of subjectivity and without it we wouldn't be able to say whether or not a game is overrated. What I don't think you get though, is that I'm talking about whether or not a game is overrated on the back of that subjectivity. The game reviewers, the promotion, the fanboys. They're all subjective, but is the game as great as they all say? Yet again, I don't see how anyone can say anything but no...

You must come to a different conclusion than me. If you do, then I honestly don't think you are looking at it objectively.

Quote:Dude, reread what you said.

What I said:
"If you didn't want me to react with my opinion on the matter then you shouldn't of quoted me and chimed in with yours. Tit for tat darlin'."

What you said:
"I don't think I ever indicated that I wanted to hear only my opinion."

I'm simply telling you, don't be surprised that after you told be to 'shut my mouth' that I would have something to say about it. The fact that you got a little pissy made me say what I did there.

---

(June 11, 2014 at 9:37 am)Insanity Wrote: That was what I thought this thread was mostly about rather than website reviews. The general attitude to games rather than how they live up to scores. Thats why I made that post when it was getting to be about if Skyrim lives up to a 10/10 or not.

Yeah fair point I started to focus too much on review scores and lost track of what I was actually trying to talk about.

I told you to "shut your mouth" as a fucking joke, which has been ruined by you deciding I was being argumentative. I never told you I didn't want you to respond, although that's what you seem to have taken out of it for no reason.

Are people saying the game is perfect - and why? Maybe by their subjective standards, it is. Maybe they have overrated opinions in your mind, but I don't think the game is overrated despite its flaws because I derive excessive enjoyment from it anyway. I think you and I are comparing apples to oranges here. Take the KotOR that you mentioned - I watched David play, and despite a great love for that universe I didn't give a fuck for the game. What matters if the mechanics are perfect if I don't give a shit about the story? In the end I'd just be pushing buttons for no reason. I feel the same way about Halo, which he also loves to the point of watching the TV miniseries multiple times and I gave him one of their novelizations as something to read at night and he's been continuing with that series. Dude loves Halo. He doesn't think it's overrated at all. I think it's boring.

Also, I treat game review websites the same way I treat pro book reviewers and pro movie reviewers. Most of them are arrogant and condescending. I've stopped reading them because I don't give a fuck about what some 'pro' thinks - they do that sort of thing for a living and I think it beats the love out of them eventually. I want opinions from the every day common man - the lurker on reddit who can give me a biased, but cogent answer as to why the game does it for them, because if I'm going to devote time to a game, I want it to be something that ends up consuming me. And this game does - modded or not, flawed as it is.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:50 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: I told you to "shut your mouth" as a fucking joke, which has been ruined by you deciding I was being argumentative. I never told you I didn't want you to respond, although that's what you seem to have taken out of it for no reason.

If I didn't take it as a joke then I wouldn't of gave you kudos on it. If you go back and actually read, all I did since that response was try to explain why I think the game is overrated, and you gave me one line responses, for the most part ignoring any of my points. Or at least it seemed that way. If I've taken it wrong then I apologise.

Quote:Are people saying the game is perfect - and why? Maybe by their subjective standards, it is. Maybe they have overrated opinions in your mind, but I don't think the game is overrated despite its flaws because I derive excessive enjoyment from it anyway. I think you and I are comparing apples to oranges here. Take the KotOR that you mentioned - I watched David play, and despite a great love for that universe I didn't give a fuck for the game. What matters if the mechanics are perfect if I don't give a shit about the story? In the end I'd just be pushing buttons for no reason.

KotOR has one of the best stories in any RPG ever made. If not the best. My subjective opinion is that it is my favourite game. Objectively it does not have any major flaws on the scale of what Skyrim has. Therein lies the difference.

Quote:I feel the same way about Halo, which he also loves to the point of watching the TV miniseries multiple times and I gave him one of their novelizations as something to read at night and he's been continuing with that series. Dude loves Halo. He doesn't think it's overrated at all. I think it's boring.

I'm only trying to look at things objectively based on the subjectivity you talk about. Halo is equally as hyped as what Skyrim is. If I look at it objectively I'd say that the hype Halo and Skyrim both get is too much for what it is, KotOR's hype isn't anywhere near the scale of the hype for Halo and Skyrim. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Seems to me you are trying to view everything as subjective when in actual fact we can be quite objective about a game being overrated.

Quote:Also, I treat game review websites the same way I treat pro book reviewers and pro movie reviewers. Most of them are arrogant and condescending. I've stopped reading them because I don't give a fuck about what some 'pro' thinks - they do that sort of thing for a living and I think it beats the love out of them eventually. I want opinions from the every day common man - the lurker on reddit who can give me a biased, but cogent answer as to why the game does it for them, because if I'm going to devote time to a game, I want it to be something that ends up consuming me. And this game does - modded or not, flawed as it is.

I'm not denying reviewers are like that. I've not denied they are subjective. I would only be repeating what I have previously said to address anything you've said here.

In terms of mods, just look back at what I said to Moros for my opinion on that matter.