I wish the church were a corpse, Ronny. But there are too many shitheads who still "believe" for that to happen. You know the type. But you are dying off. And that is a good thing.

(June 12, 2014 at 3:58 pm)Chad32 Wrote: The article you linked mentions she believes in the whole "free gift" idea. It's a weird concept. If something if free, it means you get it regardless of anything else. You don't need to change your life. You don't need to give anything in return. It's just yours. It's like if I showed up at your door, slipped $20 under it, and left. Maybe I'd say I'm giving away cash. Do what you want with this.

I'm not really sure why people think salvation is free, because if it was then everyone would get into heaven. You might say people need to accept it first. Well the bible says everyone already knows that god exists, so we're already aware of this gift. We all know it's there. Yet I'm pretty sure if a believer says salvation is a free gift, and the atheist says ok I accept it, and goes about his or her life doing exactly the same thing, the believer would have a problem with it.

Does the Bible teach that 'people need to accept it first?' Is belief a work of man, or a work of God? Is salvation a work of the will of man, or the will of God?

Personally my studies have led me to conclude that 'people don't need to accept it first.' But let's assume this is true for the sake of your argument. It's true that the Bible says everyone already knows that God exists and so are aware of the gift. However, that doesn't necessitate that a person accepts the gift.

In your analogy you say that 'an atheist says ok I accept it'. How can a person who doesn't have faith in God make a true profession of faith in God? It's a nonsensical statement. Bear in mind that salvation is by faith alone, ... and that without faith it is impossible to please God. But your statement does raise an important question: How do we get faith? Does faith come about by the will of man, or by the will of God?

(June 12, 2014 at 3:58 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Well you said it was free. If I'm expected to do anything different in return, it isn't a free gift.

It's important to define terms. 'Free' means that it is unmerited. We say that salvation is 'free' in that the saved person can do nothing to merit the salvation, so for them it is free.

To your statement, you have confused salvation with what comes after. Yes salvation is 'free' (unmerited), we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. We are saved by grace, that no man may boast. From there, the Bible teaches that we are saved (unmerited) unto good works. In other words, we are saved and then we are called to good works. The 'called to good works' is in part what theologians call sanctification. It is the process we are conformed to the image and likeness of Christ And it also is a working of God in us. So back to your original comment, the 'expected to do anything different in return' is in relation to sanctification and operates as a result of salvation, not in order for it. Consider, you give me that $20, I didn't merit the $20, that is salvation. I'm affected by your gesture and as a result I begin to live differently, that is sanctification. It's an incomplete analogy, but it is a start.

(June 12, 2014 at 5:47 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: Why should we trust you any more than we trust her? What makes you a superior authority?

I am irrelevant. Would you have me make an appeal to authority? What if I held numerous post-graduate degrees, would that make what I say any more or any less true? You shouldn't trust me, you should trust what the Bible teaches if you are to judge those teaching it. This is the point. Are the teachings of Joyce Meyer consistent or do they contradict scripture?

(June 12, 2014 at 7:59 pm)Irrational Wrote: I remember back in the Bible study days, when I was still a new member of the born again church, I asked the pastor a whole lot of questions which he was struggling to answer. At the end of the study, he came up to me and said: "It's good that you're asking questions, but try not to study it [the Bible] too much while you're still new to the faith, because it can be very dangerous and lead you astray".

If what you say is in fact true, I'd have serious doubts about the person with whom you were speaking as to their Biblical qualifications to be a pastor (teaching elder). Who would tell a Christian not to read their Bible?

Jebus effing christ! Joyce Meyers is as bad as the Bakkers and Swaggart !!!

(just read the link to CARM)

Can't hardly believe enraged members of her flock haven't sawed her in half with a length of rusty barbed wire !!

Why would they saw her in half?

I'm sure most of them will defend her to their last breath.

These people are so fucking gullible they will refuse to accept anything which upsets their little holy applecart,

(June 13, 2014 at 12:29 am)orangebox21 Wrote:

(June 12, 2014 at 7:59 pm)Irrational Wrote: I remember back in the Bible study days, when I was still a new member of the born again church, I asked the pastor a whole lot of questions which he was struggling to answer. At the end of the study, he came up to me and said: "It's good that you're asking questions, but try not to study it [the Bible] too much while you're still new to the faith, because it can be very dangerous and lead you astray".

If what you say is in fact true, I'd have serious doubts about the person with whom you were speaking as to their Biblical qualifications to be a pastor (teaching elder). Who would tell a Christian not to read their Bible?

In answer to your question: Another Christian.

(June 13, 2014 at 12:29 am)orangebox21 Wrote: It's true that the Bible says everyone already knows that God exists and so are aware of the gift. However, that doesn't necessitate that a person accepts the gift.

Another important thing to note is that, when the bible says that, it is factually wrong.

(June 13, 2014 at 3:51 am)Irrational Wrote:

(June 13, 2014 at 12:29 am)orangebox21 Wrote: If what you say is in fact true, I'd have serious doubts about the person with whom you were speaking as to their Biblical qualifications to be a pastor (teaching elder). Who would tell a Christian not to read their Bible?

In answer to your question: Another Christian.

Catholics are often taught not to read the bible, less they draw their own conclusion which the church forbids them to do.

Very odd for a bible church to do this though, cant have been that good at his job.

(June 13, 2014 at 12:29 am)orangebox21 Wrote: Does the Bible teach that 'people need to accept it first?' Is belief a work of man, or a work of God? Is salvation a work of the will of man, or the will of God?

What odd questions. Man, obviously.

(June 11, 2014 at 2:39 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: I thought this Christian-sourced image says it all.

Hey Kids! Don't use your minds! If it all seems too silly, just shut that down!

Like Love, It's a battlefield for the mind of the teen!

If you have ever taught a 5th grade class you would understand. But, I guess we need people like you being the "class" so this notion could make sense.

Wow, the human ape is so stupid.

No, just one human ape apparently.