(June 16, 2014 at 9:30 pm)ThomM Wrote:

(June 16, 2014 at 11:28 am)ShaMan Wrote: I know many good and decent Christians. The men pictured here are despicable predators who prey on the weak. "Christian" or not - some people are just sick.

Is there a picture of all of the non-Christians who got busted for the same crimes that month? I bet there would be many more photos.

Or what about atheists who got caught that month? I understand that these "Christian" men are supposed to be held to a higher moral standard than we "heathens", but let's be honest. This behavior is not limited to Christian pastors.

Hypocrisy was my impetus for leaving the Christian church, so I understand the anger/frustration with those who put themselves on a pedestal and then fall off. But I think it's irresponsible to look at the despicable actions of any individual and blame it on the group they're associated with.

Then why do theists blame non-believers for things - just because they are non=believers

You'd have to ask a believer.

Also, correlation does not equal causation, as far as 'pastors' being guilty.

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(June 16, 2014 at 12:50 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I think you still have some bias in favor of Christians. You think they can't be as bad as all that, that they're being picked on because it's bigger news if pastors or priests do it.

You think wrong. What I think is that all people are the same, and just because someone calls themselves one thing, does not mean that they are not otherwise. I do think that it's bigger news if a pastor gets caught though...

Bias?

(June 17, 2014 at 1:40 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So..in your mind...a bureaucratic breakdown ( no where in your write up does it say the person in question was convicted or even charged criminally) with a reporting system is the same as a bishop taking a known pedo-priest and transferring him to another parish to prey on fresh meat?

There is NO DIFFERENCE at all to your way of thinking?

If a public school system is found to be covering up for a teacher who has committed child abuse, would you pronounce all public school employees as evil hypocrites and refuse to send your kids to public schools or be involved with the system at all? Read the following:

( Sexual abuse of minors is not the province of the Catholic Church alone. About 4 percent of priests committed an act of sexual abuse on a minor between 1950 and 2002, according to a study being conducted by John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. That is roughly consistent with data on many similar professions.

An extensive 2007 investigation by the Associated Press showed that sexual abuse of children in U.S. schools was "widespread," and most of it was never reported or punished. And in Portland, Ore., last week, a jury reached a $1.4 million verdict against the Boy Scouts of America in a trial that showed that since the 1920s, Scouts officials kept "perversion files" on suspected abusers but kept them secret.)

Though I admit that it's an unacceptable problem in the church, it's also an unacceptable problem throughout our institutions and families. To single out the catholic or other christian churches is unfair. How abut the other 96% of priests? Are you interested in solving the problem or just condemning christians?

Quote:If a public school system is found to be covering up for a teacher who has committed child abuse,

You do see that there is an "if" at the beginning of your sentence, right? "If" that were the case I would certainly blame the administrators who allowed it to happen AND I would be damned suspicious of the teachers in that school. Humans are no where near as discrete as they think they are. There had to be others who knew, or suspected, and looked the other way.

In the case of these holy joes, there is no "if."

(June 17, 2014 at 2:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:If a public school system is found to be covering up for a teacher who has committed child abuse,

You do see that there is an "if" at the beginning of your sentence, right? "If" that were the case I would certainly blame the administrators who allowed it to happen AND I would be damned suspicious of the teachers in that school. Humans are no where near as discrete as they think they are. There had to be others who knew, or suspected, and looked the other way.

In the case of these holy joes, there is no "if."

Okay. I'll remove the "If" and begin the sentence with "A". Did you read my excerpt closely?

The public school systems have preventive measures in place to punish the predators. Since, humans are terrible about secrets, the massive scale of the operation would have been found and dismantled.

The churches have put in place a system to protect and harbor these individuals. Religious texts support some of the behaviors, and it has cause a massive divide in the religious community.

Sorry, but it sounds like you are justifying these shit heads. Yes, with the system in place to protect these individuals, and support by the donations you give to your religious organizations with shameful.

(June 17, 2014 at 1:46 pm)ShaMan Wrote:

(June 16, 2014 at 9:30 pm)ThomM Wrote: Then why do theists blame non-believers for things - just because they are non=believers

You'd have to ask a believer.

Also, correlation does not equal causation, as far as 'pastors' being guilty.

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(June 16, 2014 at 12:50 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I think you still have some bias in favor of Christians. You think they can't be as bad as all that, that they're being picked on because it's bigger news if pastors or priests do it.

You think wrong. What I think is that all people are the same, and just because someone calls themselves one thing, does not mean that they are not otherwise. I do think that it's bigger news if a pastor gets caught though...

Bias?

Nonbelievers are a minority. You bet that more of them do this than the Christian majority. Perhaps you meant non-clergy?

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(June 17, 2014 at 2:48 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 17, 2014 at 1:40 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So..in your mind...a bureaucratic breakdown ( no where in your write up does it say the person in question was convicted or even charged criminally) with a reporting system is the same as a bishop taking a known pedo-priest and transferring him to another parish to prey on fresh meat?

There is NO DIFFERENCE at all to your way of thinking?

If a public school system is found to be covering up for a teacher who has committed child abuse, would you pronounce all public school employees as evil hypocrites and refuse to send your kids to public schools or be involved with the system at all? Read the following:

It depends. Do the public school employees attempt to excuse or defeind the guilty parties?

I suspect the Boy Scouts were more concerned with their institutional bank account - same as the church - than the kids in their charge. Oddly, much like the church, the BSA attempts to portray itself as some sort of fountain of moral superiority. A pattern thus emerges.

Public schools are under no such illusions.

Check out the Boy Scout Oath.

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsoath.asp


"God" figures prominently. Why is everyone who invokes "god" such a flaming hypocrite?

(June 16, 2014 at 11:13 am)LostLocke Wrote: That's unfair. After all, it's obvious they're not true Christians. Right?

Exactly,

Matthew 7:16-20
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

(June 17, 2014 at 7:21 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I suspect the Boy Scouts were more concerned with their institutional bank account - same as the church - than the kids in their charge.

At a national level, you may well be right. It's all over the board at the troop level.

I was waiting to see how long it would take to the move the focus from the public schools to the boy scouts.