(July 16, 2014 at 4:49 pm)Luckie Wrote: People less advantaged than alpha males live with streets outside their front doors. Navajos lived on cliffs. Some babies live on the street. Kids gotta learn or they'll never cross the street.

Case in point: I have an absolute terror problem with crossing streets because my mum kept me on her hip till I was 17 because of her anxieties about life.

Seriously John, fuck off. You aren't contributing to discussion you're just being a judgemental dick like always.

Holy cow, you're terrified of crossing the street? That's messed up. There is a middle ground between 3 and 17 you know.

(July 16, 2014 at 5:09 pm)pocaracas Wrote: What on Earth is a "timeout"?

It's go to your room light, i.e. time spent sitting down quietly apart from the action. It's usually used on a child playing rough with others, being too noisy, running and/or making messes. There's a rule of thumb every parent and eventually every child knows: time outs are one minute long per year of age.

It wasn't a thing when I was a child, but by the time I became a parent it was standard in the U.S. parent's repertoire. The elementary schools use them too.

I've know parents who could use them.

(July 16, 2014 at 1:55 pm)Luckie Wrote:

(July 16, 2014 at 4:59 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: This!

And there's the rub.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that whether or not a kid needs spanked, is their fault????

Um... no, thats not what he said at all.

Quote: Maybe in your income bracket kind sir, but not in mine.

I have literally no idea what you mean by this!

Quote:Luckie, you said
That's exactly what I am talking about! What you're talking about is wrong. No doubt, and no argument. If you're using objects or leaving bruises you're harming the child. We're on the same page there I think. But some people on this thread are talking about ALL physical punishment in the same way. That's my point! It's not a black and white issue.

Quote:Let me re-iterate this since y'all seem to be getting heated. Conditional spanking and corporal punishment with spanking is not the same thing and is differentiated in the studies.

That's exactly what I've been trying to communicate.

Quote:My point is this: I don't fucking trust people in general to be their own arbiters of justice when it comes to dealing out physical assault on helpless children. A small population of spankers can seem to handle using it as an effective tool, but a majority cannot. Its a social problem.

I can respect that as a view.

Timeout, Pocaracas, is a forced allotment of time you implement upon your child (a cumulative one minute for every year of their age) where they just go..sit. in timeout. No play, no getting to watch fun stuff, etc. I like putting their timeout in bed because sometimes they act up becaause they're tired and they might just cry themselves to sleep. Lack of stimulation is the wOrst for a kid.

In answer to your scenario, if it were raining and that child kept jumping on the chair, I'd make them sit in the kitchen with me and read me a book or help cook or play with pans or put dishes away (how old is the kid?) Or just sit there and do nothing. That's assuming I couldn't just take the chair away, or set something on the chair. In any case if the kid isn't listening they'd be in the kitchen with me if the timeout didn't work, and if they start throwing tantrums then they can just take their little booties to bed for a nap!
That's the thing about kids--you control their world and they know it. If they don't respect you, they resent you.

(July 16, 2014 at 6:29 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(July 16, 2014 at 5:09 pm)pocaracas Wrote: What on Earth is a "timeout"?

It's go to your room light, i.e. time spent sitting down quietly apart from the action. It's usually used on a child playing rough with others, being too noisy, running and/or making messes. There's a rule of thumb every parent and eventually every child knows: time outs are one minute long per year of age.

An alternative is to have the child stand facing a wall or corner of the room and contemplate their wrongdoing.

(July 16, 2014 at 3:14 pm)Luckie Wrote: I've seen a study recently that when given the choice between a shock or having 15 minutes to your own thoughts: more people chose the shock.

Making a kid think and discuss how they fucked up is, apparently, a worse punishment in the eyes of the child than a swat which is immediate resolution. I couldn't wait to get the spanking over with especially if we had to travel home or if I had to wait for dad to come home, to do so. I don't remember the swats themselves although I can count on one hand how many I got. I remember the anguish I was in until it was over with, mainly because it was more important for my parents to not be mad at me anymore. I remember a lot of obsessing about whether or not they were mad at me. Don't even remember why I got swatted.

Yeah, we use the timeout. Which is one of the things which upsets me. I agree that its a worse punishment than a swat which is immediately over.

Which is why I'd rather use the LESS severe punishment, the swat. Because I can remember it working very well indeed for me and if its less of an unpleasant punishment then I'd rather do that!

The thing I'd be looking for is the quickest and least unpleasant way to correct a behavior. If the swat on the back of the legs is less unpleasant than the timeout (and I'd agree with you that it is) and achieves the desired result (as I know that it can), would that not be a more preferable method? I often feel that the psychological methods, like time out, which I use are harsher than the physical ones. As many have said, not all harm is physical.

I personally am not absolutely anti-spanking - however, I have never found it necessary to hit my child, nor can I think of a situation where I would. I would not want to send the unintended message that hitting people solves problems.

(July 16, 2014 at 6:36 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(July 16, 2014 at 6:29 pm)Jenny A Wrote: It's go to your room light, i.e. time spent sitting down quietly apart from the action. It's usually used on a child playing rough with others, being too noisy, running and/or making messes. There's a rule of thumb every parent and eventually every child knows: time outs are one minute long per year of age.

An alternative is to have the child stand facing a wall or corner of the room and contemplate their wrongdoing.

Works well. Provided the kid will do what you tell them to do.

(July 16, 2014 at 6:39 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote:

(July 16, 2014 at 6:36 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: An alternative is to have the child stand facing a wall or corner of the room and contemplate their wrongdoing.

Works well. Provided the kid will do what you tell them to do.

That would be the catch. The trick is to start early and never let them see you blink. My biggest problem with disciplining toddlers was keeping a straight face.