(August 2, 2014 at 6:09 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The question was raised by the OP if Christians could be wrong. My answer was if we're wrong then it doesn't matter, now does it?

Will you stand by that statement when you have to stand before Allah and explain why you weren't a Muslim?

Maybe the One True Faith has never been instigated on earth ever ?


We die and are adjudicated by the Tribune of Wrtplvcdsqu as having failed to rgtuvre the lklkgfdw properly.

Sucks to be all of us.

(August 2, 2014 at 6:52 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(August 2, 2014 at 6:09 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The question was raised by the OP if Christians could be wrong. My answer was if we're wrong then it doesn't matter, now does it?

Will you stand by that statement when you have to stand before Allah and explain why you weren't a Muslim?

Islam is the last thing I need to worry about, seeing how it was started by the descendants of Ishmael (half brother of Issac) of whom God said would not be an heir of Abraham. Also the Bible condemns Islam as an abomination around 1100 years before its existence.

Are you saying that Allah wouldn't punish you for not having worshipped him? Besides which, ffor Islam/Allah you can plug in the name of any other of the thousands of gods worshipped over the millennia and the point will still stand. What gives you the right to claim your religion and/or pet god as The One True one and all others as false?

You may also be interested in the notion that, as far as I'm aware, Blaise Pascal composed his wager as a parody of the competing justifications for faith.

(August 2, 2014 at 7:29 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Are you saying that Allah wouldn't punish you for not having worshipped him? Besides which, ffor Islam/Allah you can plug in the name of any other of the thousands of gods worshipped over the millennia and the point will still stand. What gives you the right to claim your religion and/or pet god as The One True one and all others as false?

I'm saying that Islam is a false religion, I also gave you the reasons why.

Also Christianity is the only "religion" where it's God states:
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Yeah yeah, "God" is real because the bible says so etc. Circular argument go home; you're drunk. You still haven't addressed why you think Pascal's Wager is so compelling. Adhering to a religious concept on the basis that you might suffer terribly otherwise is hardly a tenable position to take. And if, as I suspect, you wouldn't be convinced by the same argument were an adherent of some other competing faith to put it to you as a reason to think as they do, why even bring it up?

Also, why do you think I, or any rational person here, would find videos compelling without anything to substantiate their claims?

(August 2, 2014 at 7:58 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Yeah yeah, "God" is real because the bible says so etc. Circular argument go home; you're drunk. You still haven't addressed why you think Pascal's Wager is so compelling. Adhering to a religious concept on the basis that you might suffer terribly otherwise is hardly a tenable position to take. And if, as I suspect, you wouldn't be convinced by the same argument were an adherent of some other competing faith to put it to you as a reason to think as they do, why even bring it up?

Also, why do you think I, or any rational person here, would find videos compelling without anything to substantiate their claims?

It's quite clear you didn't even watch the videos, which is fine. But as far as evidence is concerned, what do you expect me to post? Don't ask for evidence and then refuse to examine said evidence.

God is real because it can be demonstrated like the Bible says it can, which is why I posted the longer of the two videos

(August 2, 2014 at 4:11 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(August 1, 2014 at 5:41 pm)Rob_W75 Wrote: As an atheist I am willing to admit that I could be wrong. God may exist. Your Bible may be 100% accurate. All I need is evidence.

Is there anything that could convince you that the God of the Bible may not exist?

The real question is what are the consequences for a Christian being wrong VS an Atheist.

If a Christian is wrong there are no consequences, in fact he\she will never realize it. If an Atheist is wrong then he\she has eternal separation to look forward to...Even if they are right, the future is still pretty bleak.

Atheism is just a lose/lose situation.

What if Islam is right and we're both wrong and you spend an eternity being roasted with us for not worshipping Allah?

Seems like we both could be in a lose/lose situation to me.

Edit: I've just realized someone else asked you this so please ignore this.

(August 2, 2014 at 8:12 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: It's quite clear you didn't even watch the videos, which is fine. But as far as evidence is concerned, what do you expect me to post? Don't ask for evidence and then refuse to examine said evidence.

Ok, let's start from first principles.

Acceptable evidence would be something which supports whatever claim you're making. Were I to claim that I have a magic coin from Atlantis in my pocket, that grants wishes, I have to supply evidentiary support for three claims:

1) I possess a magic coin;
2) It is from Atlantis;
3) It grants wishes.

I could easily support each of these by producing the coin, demonstrating its Atlantean origin, and granting you a wish. As you will see, of the three claims the first is the easiest to substantiate, requiring little more than a jpeg. The second is a little more outlandish; even if I supplied you with photographic evidence, plus archaelogical reports attesting to Atlantis as its origin, it's still a bit much to swallow without several grains of salt. However, though implausible, it's probably not impossible, all else being equal etc.

The third claim is more problematic. Even if I allowed you to test it by making a wish, you still don't know if it was the coin or some other mechanism, including coincidence, that actually made it happen. And even if I could somehow prove it was the coin's doing, I still haven't established magic as the mechanism.

Similarly for god claims. First pick what you want to establish, then apportion evidence appropriate to that claim. Videos of alleged miracles and divine utterings are not evidence; merely another level of claims.

Incidentally, what makes you think I haven't watched them, either here or before now?

(August 2, 2014 at 8:12 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: God is real because it can be demonstrated like the Bible says it can, which is why I posted the longer of the two videos

If all you have to support your god claim is yet another set of claims, ie the bible, then you need to work on what you're claiming and why you find it compelling. Don't blame me for your low standard of evidence.

(August 2, 2014 at 6:13 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: So here you're guilty of presupposing that there are only two variables; your version of whatever god it is you worship is true or it isn't.

Why are you ignoring all the other gods? What if Allah is the true god?

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That rocks, bud.

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(August 2, 2014 at 7:47 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Also Christianity is the only "religion" where it's God states:
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Citing the Bible to prove your god's existence is much like citing a murderer's protestations of innocence as you find him innocent.

Also, it's even funnier coming from a guy who describes himself as believing in "god, not religion". Which Bible are you citing, formulated by which religion, voted upon by which men?

You believe yourself iconocalstic, yet you sup from the spoon all the same.