(September 17, 2014 at 2:36 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 17, 2014 at 2:33 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: once again it goes sailing way past your head, I'm talking about the layperson....

the average Joe (which you all are) isn't scientific, he accepts what hes told by the experts.

You're a fool and your way of thinking fits in perfectly with your theism. We don't accept things based on the credentials of the person saying it, we accept things based on their truth value, which is often demonstrated through experiment and study. The data attained is not more or less valuable based on whether or not the experimenter has a PhD or a Bachelor's or no degree at all.

Ok, then let me pose the question to you. Do you believe dark matter exists?

(September 17, 2014 at 2:43 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 17, 2014 at 2:36 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: You're a fool and your way of thinking fits in perfectly with your theism. We don't accept things based on the credentials of the person saying it, we accept things based on their truth value, which is often demonstrated through experiment and study. The data attained is not more or less valuable based on whether or not the experimenter has a PhD or a Bachelor's or no degree at all.

Ok, then let me pose the question to you. Do you believe dark matter exists?

Alright, I'll bite. Sure.

(September 17, 2014 at 2:36 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 5:42 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: My point was, the Bible makes a distinction between naturally occurring phenomena and miracles, contradicting your argument.

Also Moses is credited with the writing of the Torah, which puts it's age around 1400 bc, that's about 600 years before the Archaic period.

You know Moses dies at the end, right? Did he write that part, too?

You do realize Moses was a Prophet do you? I think you know what that implies.

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(September 17, 2014 at 2:46 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 17, 2014 at 2:43 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Ok, then let me pose the question to you. Do you believe dark matter exists?

Alright, I'll bite. Sure.

seeing how dark matter is hypothetical and has not as of yet been proven, why do you accept it?

(September 17, 2014 at 2:28 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 17, 2014 at 2:18 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Huggy, you don't get to make assumptions of that nature either. I didn't respond to your question about dark matter because it had no relevance to the question at hand. That you're trying to sell it as though it does speaks volumes about your honesty. Thankfully, everything here is a matter of record so we can all evaluate it.

The fact that you can't see the relevance speaks volumes.

your question:

"do we accept the truth of the claim purely on the credentials of the claimant?"

the answer is yes when it comes down to matters of science and an expert in that particular scientific field.

so the relevance was that you having never observed dark matter, accept it's existence based upon the "credentials of the claimants"

No, we accept claims in matters of science because those claims have, by the time they are adopted into the literature, passed through and been tempered in the crucible of peer review. If a renowned scientist, such as George Hale, starts spouting about elves or the Great Pumpkin, then they will expect to attract scepticism and criticism. It's not the credentials of the scientists in question that determine the validity of the evidence; it's that the work they produce has been tested and what remains found to be compelling.

(September 17, 2014 at 2:51 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: You do realize Moses was a Prophet do you? I think you know what that implies.

I think I'm better qualified than anyone here to know what that implies.

(September 17, 2014 at 2:51 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 17, 2014 at 2:36 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: You know Moses dies at the end, right? Did he write that part, too?

You do realize Moses was a Prophet do you? I think you know what that implies.

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(September 17, 2014 at 2:46 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Alright, I'll bite. Sure.

seeing how dark matter is hypothetical and has not as of yet been proven, why do you accept it?

I think that it's likely something like dark matter exists due to the massive piles of observational evidence which suggests that there is something that accounts for the some of the bizarre gravitational effects that we encounter in space. Do I know for a fact that dark matter exists? No. Do I know for sure what the character/behavior of dark matter is? Nope. Is it possible that what we call 'dark matter' is instead soem combination of multiple things and not a singular 'matter'? Yup. I accept that there is most likely a cause for the gravitational phenomena, and although we haven't pinned it down exactly, what we dub "dark matter" seems good for now.

(September 17, 2014 at 3:16 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 17, 2014 at 2:51 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: You do realize Moses was a Prophet do you? I think you know what that implies.

---

seeing how dark matter is hypothetical and has not as of yet been proven, why do you accept it?

I think that it's likely something like dark matter exists due to the massive piles of observational evidence which suggests that there is something that accounts for the some of the bizarre gravitational effects that we encounter in space. Do I know for a fact that dark matter exists? No. Do I know for sure what the character/behavior of dark matter is? Nope. Is it possible that what we call 'dark matter' is instead soem combination of multiple things and not a singular 'matter'? Yup. I accept that there is most likely a cause for the gravitational phenomena, and although we haven't pinned it down exactly, what we dub "dark matter" seems good for now.

Therefore making my point "the average Joe (which you all are) isn't scientific, he accepts what hes told by the experts."

you admit that you..

•do not know for a fact that dark matter exists

•That dark matter has not been proven

•or dark matter could be something else entirely

Yet you still subscribe to the Theory because it "seems good for now".

Not very scientific, and contradicts your earlier statement

"We don't accept things based on the credentials of the person saying it, we accept things based on their truth value, which is often demonstrated through experiment and study."

That being said, I'm going to take a bit of a break.

(September 17, 2014 at 3:42 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 17, 2014 at 3:16 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I think that it's likely something like dark matter exists due to the massive piles of observational evidence which suggests that there is something that accounts for the some of the bizarre gravitational effects that we encounter in space. Do I know for a fact that dark matter exists? No. Do I know for sure what the character/behavior of dark matter is? Nope. Is it possible that what we call 'dark matter' is instead soem combination of multiple things and not a singular 'matter'? Yup. I accept that there is most likely a cause for the gravitational phenomena, and although we haven't pinned it down exactly, what we dub "dark matter" seems good for now.

Therefore making my point "the average Joe (which you all are) isn't scientific, he accepts what hes told by the experts."

you admit that you..

•do not know for a fact that dark matter exists

•That dark matter has not been proven

•or dark matter could be something else entirely

Yet you still subscribe to the Theory because it "seems good for now".

Not very scientific, and contradicts your earlier statement

"We don't accept things based on the credentials of the person saying it, we accept things based on their truth value, which is often demonstrated through experiment and study."

That being said, I'm going to take a bit of a break.

The "best guess for now" is what science does, Huggable. It looks at the current evidence and constructs our best guess for what explains it. You've been hideously intellectually dishonest in this thread, and you show no desire to actually learn how science works. What a waste of time.

Pssh, take as long of a break as you want..

(September 17, 2014 at 2:28 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:51 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: Really you have to say sorry to God for the bad things you have done and the good things you haven't done. You hzve to then ask him into your life to help you live a good life according to God.

In other words when a sinner reaches up to God, God reaches down.

Great, I'm saved then, since I did that when I was a teenager. Unless there are MORE conditions?

I don't really know of any conditions, but here is a question that challenged me. How can you follow someone(Jesus) without knowing who they are.

(September 16, 2014 at 8:41 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: the placebo effect has been known about for past 110 or so years, I think it's safe to say it's unexplainable by science.

Or maybe there isn't that much to it to begin with.

"We found little evidence in general that placebos had powerful clinical effects. Although placebos had no significant effects on objective or binary outcomes, they had possible small benefits in studies with continuous subjective outcomes and for the treatment of pain. Outside the setting of clinical trials, there is no justification for the use of placebos."


http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJ...5243442106