(September 28, 2014 at 4:15 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Your numbers may be in ascending order but they are not in sequential order. The Fibonacci sequence adds the last two numbers to get the next number, eg. 1,1,2,3,5,8,13, that's the sequence.

in your "sequence" of 1, 5, 8, 49, 65, 79, how do you get from 1 to 5? From 5 to 8?

So what? My numbers are in an order: "ascending" is an order, even if it's too general for your tastes. Please try to remember what we're talking about here: your claim is that all sequences require design, so in answer I offered a sequence that required no design at all. The obvious conclusion is that not all sequences require designers, which prompts us to move ahead and ask how one determines the design of a sequence.

You were the one who offered the definition here. I'm playing by your rules.

Quote:That would imply that anyone is capable of accomplishing the same thing. The man is a trained musician. Place a monkey at the piano and see if you get the same result.

What it implies is that the content of a sequence is less important than the person observing it. You were the one saying random things couldn't be sequences, what I showed is that in the hands of a person well versed in the language of what's on offer, even entirely random sets can contain ordered music.

To be clear, the same is true of the Fibonacci Sequence: the fact that the numbers recur isn't important, because without demonstrating a designer there's simply no reason to believe that the order factored into the processes by which it became present in the various things you're pointing to. The only significance at play here is that you were able to read the numbers involved and recognized them as conforming to a pattern that has been noted elsewhere in human history. The numbers don't matter; your experience in reading them does. To say otherwise, to claim design because of this, is to get the process entirely in reverse.

You are looking at a puddle, seeing that it is a depression holding water, and concluding that since cups are also depressions that can contain water, that therefore all puddles are designed like cups are.

Have you ever watched countdown where the delectable Rachel Riley picks 5 random numbers and is supplied with another larger random number and yet 9 times out of 10 they can use the 5 random numbers to make the 1 big number? That!

(September 28, 2014 at 1:48 am)Huggy74 Wrote: once again, I don't have an issue with a pattern being produced randomly, I gave snowflakes as an example. If however all snowflakes were the same then there would have to be a reason behind it, it couldn't just occur randomly.

would you agree to that?

Well some natural things are produced just the same. The slope that a granular material can sustain is constantly the same. Yet that is entirely to be expected without any advanced fiddling on the part of a smartypants designer.

The ratio of circles circumference to its diameter is likewise fixed through no effort of any genie. Moreover pi, like the golden ratio, manifests many places. But no, I don't think it was the result of any smartypants designer's laziness. There are simply underlying reasons why these ratios apply.

If you think a creator stitched reality together using these ratios, then do you think they are entirely arbitrary other than their being chosen by the watchmaker? This whole line of inquiry just seems like conspiracy theory crossed with numerology.

(September 28, 2014 at 5:47 pm)whateverist Wrote: Moreover pi, like the golden ratio, manifests many places. But no, I don't think it was the result of any smartypants designer's laziness. There are simply underlying reasons why these ratios apply.

Actually in god's case, he set pi = 3 , And that's so lazy it's wrong..

The great pyramid at Giza.
Length=756
Width=756
Height=481
(L+W)/H=3.14
That's better than the Bible therefore Ra. Suck it Jesus.

For me the universe came from nowhere, for where could it come from, if it came from somewhere then where did that come from, and on and on we go.

Really? the stupid pattern debate is still going on?

A pattern has a cause or reason, that part is correct, but a pattern doesn't mean a designer by default, and a designer doesn't necessarily need to have a pattern in his design.

Snowey,

Given your imagination that "god" whipped up the universe with his fairytale magic, where did his magic come from? How is it energized?
Where did it come from?
What's it made of?
How did god get his magic?

(September 28, 2014 at 1:18 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 28, 2014 at 1:10 am)Rhythm Wrote: If you flip a coin and get h-t-h-t-h-t is that by design or is it random Hugs?

were not talking about an isolated case. It would be more like 1000 people flipping a coin and getting the same sequence, calculate those odds.

Improbable but still possible.