Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.

[Esquilax]

Your numbers may be in ascending order but they are not in sequential order. The Fibonacci sequence adds the last two numbers to get the next number, eg. 1,1,2,3,5,8,13, that's the sequence.

in your "sequence" of 1, 5, 8, 49, 65, 79, how do you get from 1 to 5? From 5 to 8?

So what? My numbers are in an order: "ascending" is an order, even if it's too general for your tastes. Please try to remember what we're talking about here: your claim is that all sequences require design, so in answer I offered a sequence that required no design at all. The obvious conclusion is that not all sequences require designers, which prompts us to move ahead and ask how one determines the design of a sequence.

You were the one who offered the definition here. I'm playing by your rules.

That would imply that anyone is capable of accomplishing the same thing. The man is a trained musician. Place a monkey at the piano and see if you get the same result.

What it implies is that the content of a sequence is less important than the person observing it. You were the one saying random things couldn't be sequences, what I showed is that in the hands of a person well versed in the language of what's on offer, even entirely random sets can contain ordered music.

To be clear, the same is true of the Fibonacci Sequence: the fact that the numbers recur isn't important, because without demonstrating a designer there's simply no reason to believe that the order factored into the processes by which it became present in the various things you're pointing to. The only significance at play here is that you were able to read the numbers involved and recognized them as conforming to a pattern that has been noted elsewhere in human history. The numbers don't matter; your experience in reading them does. To say otherwise, to claim design because of this, is to get the process entirely in reverse.

You are looking at a puddle, seeing that it is a depression holding water, and concluding that since cups are also depressions that can contain water, that therefore all puddles are designed like cups are.

[StuW]

Have you ever watched countdown where the delectable Rachel Riley picks 5 random numbers and is supplied with another larger random number and yet 9 times out of 10 they can use the 5 random numbers to make the 1 big number? That!

[Angrboda]

"pattern is synonymous with design"

This would be more accurately stated as "pattern is a hallmark of design" because while the existence of pattern can be a strong indicator of design, the fact is that patterns do occur in the absence of design. So pattern is not a reliable indicator of design. Pattern by itself does not automatically imply design.

If the fibonacci sequence occurred in "everything" as you've claimed, it would indeed beg an explanation. However it only occurs here and there. Thus it is simply another pattern that may or may not be the result of design. If you want to use it as evidence of design then you need something stronger than the mere presence of a pattern.

As can be seen in the quote below, even leading intelligent design proponents like William Dembski implicitly acknowledge that an improbable pattern isn't enough to infer design, the pattern must have specific characteristics for design to be inferred. Unfortunately for Dembski, his attempt at defining that "something else" is widely regarded as a failure.

Specified complexity is an argument proposed by William Dembski and used by him and others to promote intelligent design. According to Dembski, the concept is intended to formalize a property that singles out patterns that are both specified and complex, in specific senses defined by Dembski. Dembski states that specified complexity is a reliable marker of design by an intelligent agent, a central tenet to intelligent design which Dembski argues for in opposition to modern evolutionary theory. The concept of specified complexity is widely regarded as mathematically unsound and has not been the basis for further independent work in information theory, the theory of complex systems, or biology. Specified complexity is one of the two main arguments used by intelligent design proponents, the other being irreducible complexity.

Wikipedia | Specified complexity

The problem is false positives, detecting design where no design is present. As has been pointed out to you, there are a number of patterns that occur as a result of perfectly lawlike behaviors specified by natural law. Fairy rings are a common example. These ring shaped structures of fungus were once thought to be created by the intelligent design of fairies but have since been shown to result from natural processes.



http://www.mushroomexpert.com/fairy_rings.html

[Whateverist]

once again, I don't have an issue with a pattern being produced randomly, I gave snowflakes as an example. If however all snowflakes were the same then there would have to be a reason behind it, it couldn't just occur randomly.

would you agree to that?

Well some natural things are produced just the same. The slope that a granular material can sustain is constantly the same. Yet that is entirely to be expected without any advanced fiddling on the part of a smartypants designer.

The ratio of circles circumference to its diameter is likewise fixed through no effort of any genie. Moreover pi, like the golden ratio, manifests many places. But no, I don't think it was the result of any smartypants designer's laziness. There are simply underlying reasons why these ratios apply.

If you think a creator stitched reality together using these ratios, then do you think they are entirely arbitrary other than their being chosen by the watchmaker? This whole line of inquiry just seems like conspiracy theory crossed with numerology.

[Brakeman]

Moreover pi, like the golden ratio, manifests many places. But no, I don't think it was the result of any smartypants designer's laziness. There are simply underlying reasons why these ratios apply.

Actually in god's case, he set pi = 3 , And that's so lazy it's wrong..

[popeyespappy]

The great pyramid at Giza.
Length=756
Width=756
Height=481
(L+W)/H=3.14
That's better than the Bible therefore Ra. Suck it Jesus.

[psychoslice]

For me the universe came from nowhere, for where could it come from, if it came from somewhere then where did that come from, and on and on we go.

[Aoi Magi]

Really? the stupid pattern debate is still going on?

A pattern has a cause or reason, that part is correct, but a pattern doesn't mean a designer by default, and a designer doesn't necessarily need to have a pattern in his design.

[Brakeman]

Snowey,

Given your imagination that "god" whipped up the universe with his fairytale magic, where did his magic come from? How is it energized?
Where did it come from?
What's it made of?
How did god get his magic?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

If you flip a coin and get h-t-h-t-h-t is that by design or is it random Hugs?

were not talking about an isolated case. It would be more like 1000 people flipping a coin and getting the same sequence, calculate those odds.

Improbable but still possible.