(September 26, 2014 at 2:29 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I believe it was sacrafice as Jesus didn't have to die on the cross and go through the pain leading up to it.

So it's a sacrifice because it was a choice? That's not what defines a sacrifice. Jesus "gave up" something (a human life) that he did not need and that he only took up in order to humiliate humanity by 'showing them how it's done.' If you believe the Bible, then to this day the only human who managed to 'get it right' was the one human who was really god under the disguise. If getting it right is so difficult as to be impossible, then it seems as if the game is rigged. So even the sacrifice was just a method for mocking us poor, clumsy, pathetic humans.

Heck, god even has you taking the blame for being created improperly. What a miserable sadist he is!

I don't think I was created imperfectly, he wasn't trying to humilate anyone, I have no clue what you have been reading.

I'm of the opinion was a conglomeration of these guys:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athronges

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_of_Peraea
With some elements from the life of this guy:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_of_Galilee

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: I do NOT believe in magic.

okay…I dunno why are you bringing this up but okay.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: I don't believe in science I believe science.

Emm could you clarify that because its like me saying: I don’t believe in shoes I believe shoes.(see)

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: I don't believe in the science of blowing people up,

That’s not open for you to believe. Ignite a petard and put it near your body keep repeating “I don’t believe in science of blowing people up” and tell me what happens next.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: making carcinogens that give people cancer.

Oh I see you think that science if a source of evil….
Not very mature.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: I certainly think some of the ways they study questionable watch Dark Matters.

Fine. Conduct your own experiments tell the people what you find.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: Like harvesting the moon, harvesting the planet.

Yeah because if I said that I am a supporter of science ergo I support every stupid decision that it’s done in the name of science right? It’s like saying to a Christian: You believe in Christianity?... Therefore you must support KKK.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: All those problems come from science.

Yeah because we all know that all those fabrics, weapons and machines move on their own without no human intervention right?

A group of political activists were attempting to show the Master how their ideology would change the world.
The Master listened carefully.
The following day he said, “An ideology is as good or bad as the people who make use of it. If a million wolves were to organise for justice would they cease to be a million wolves?”

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: No different than religion in the way that some is good some is really bad.

Don’t tell that to me you’re the one who ain’t mentioning any good.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: Climate change is science's fault, not religions.

Yeah I mean it’s not like people refuse to listen to the scientific data about climate change by putting their religious beliefs as a excuse to avoid listening the truth. Oh wait a minute.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: Spiritual means my mind is open because nobody knows.

spir·i·tu·al:
1
: of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs>
2
a : of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs>
b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3
: concerned with religious values
4
: related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5
a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : spiritualistic

I gotta ask did you really thought that I won’t notice that you twist the meaning of the Word?
Jut limit yourself to say I’m open minded will you.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: I draw energy from the sun, the rain, the wind, the night, love, kindness and silence.

I hope that you’re trying to say that you use all those elements to raise your optimisms.

“When will I be enlightened?” “When you see.” the Master said. “See what?”
“Trees and flowers and moon and stars.” “But I see these everyday.”
“No. What you see is paper trees, paper flowers, paper moons and paper stars. For you live, not in reality, but in your words and thoughts.”
And, for good measure, he added gently, “You live a paper life alas, and will die a paper death.”

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: It does not mean I believe in fairy tales or supernatural magic.

You just said that you draw energy of the silence.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: I don't believe in supernatural things.

I dunno I think spirits fit somewhere in that category.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: I believe in intelligence which obviously existed before man.

By..? I’m not saying that the rest of the animal kingdom can’t develop intelligence nor that they don’t have any however was there a creature that develop a certain level of intelligence(and therefor wisdom) equally to our species before our species existence?

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: Where did the intelligence come from?

Okay I dunno if that some sort of intelligence that you mentioned before even existed. But our intelligence along with the rest of the animal kingdom came from the constant learning adaptation and changes trough or fauna lifetime in this planet.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: That's the main reason I don't jump on the atheist train, intelligence.

Why because you have questions? Because you do realize that skepticism is the main reason we all jumped on the atheist train intelligence right?

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: I can not make sense out of complexity w/o intelligence.

Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t mean it’s impossible. We on the other hand I can not make sense out of claims without evidence.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: Spirituality means keeping myself in check for the good of others.

spir·i·tu·al·i·ty
1
: something that in ecclesiastical law belongs to the church or to a cleric as such
2
: clergy
3
: sensitivity or attachment to religious values
4
: the quality or state of being spiritual.

So you keep yourself in check for the good of others by twisting the words’ meaning?

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: It's all about me not you.

And you bring up Jesus life because?... Who cares? What does it has to do with anything of this?

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: I don't believe in god I believe in nature/higher powers.

That’s odd some people use those words to describe God.

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: Most of all I believe in KINDNESS. I believe in empathy. I believe in doing to others as you would have done to you. I believe you should be impeccable with your word.

What is wrong with that?

Well for someone who claims should be impeccable with it’s word you just twisted the meaning of a couple of them. You also blamed science for the planet Which is odd since last time I checked people weren’t causing the climate change in the name of science(however I can tell you a lot of things that people do in the name of religion). You mentioned a higher power. But power that comes from were? To gain what? To accomplish what? To maintain what?

(September 26, 2014 at 8:44 am)Rogue Wrote: Do you believe in any of those things?

Nop

(September 26, 2014 at 2:08 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote:

(September 26, 2014 at 1:54 pm)Rogue Wrote: Very off topic. Is it a disease y'all have. Are you people A.D.D or what?

One time, I went to see Robert Plant in Los Angeles. Before the show, we'd all had quite a bit of beer to drink. Being at the Sports Arena, and parking out in the surrounding neighborhoods, made for a long walk and man did I have to take a piss by the time we got to the venue!

I thought my bladder was going to burst. Once in the process of relieving myself, I was sure I saw Jesus. Just...for a few seconds.

And then he was gone.

Off topic.

Are you not smart enough to talk about the subject?

---

(September 26, 2014 at 2:09 pm)Celestine Wrote:

(September 26, 2014 at 1:54 pm)Rogue Wrote: Yes and how do we know that they existed?

Kongzi, Archimedes, and Muhammad, all have enough evidence of their existence.

Zoroaster, Lao Tzu, and Buddha I am not entirely sure of. To be fair though, how do we know that Jesus existed? They may very well be the compilation of many people. This however does not make the teachings in their name any less valuable.

The same way we believe other more ancient characters than him.

I am [b]NOT[/b] trying to prove the existence of Jesus. I am going by what has been recorded in the bible.

Contrary to what the Christian poster posted, Jesus did not call his self God. When questioned by the leaders he did not say he was god. He said, My kingdom is not of this earth. He did not claim to be god, the claim was he was the Messiah. I think he took this burden upon himself because he loved people and saw the roads lined with bodies nailed to crosses.

Thanks to him nailing people to crosses stopped. Pagans were almost eliminated because of Christianity. They were converting left and right.

It's history like it or not.

---

(September 26, 2014 at 2:10 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(September 26, 2014 at 1:43 pm)Rogue Wrote: That's adhominem. The lowest form of debate. I guess you didn't see the movie.

What movie? "Heaven is for real"? And if you want a debate to be taken seriously, the first lesson you should probably learn is to not cite the History Channel as a credible source for information about... anything.

Quote:What does, "I don't know" amount to? Certainly not that god does not or does exist. There is not enough data at this time to make an absolute claim as atheist and religious people do.

I don't know indeed amounts to a denial of belief in God. It doesn't quite rule out the possibility that mythological beings could be real, but realizes their existence in consciousness is the result of exactly that--mythical stories (and of course, philosophical meandering that has fallen from the rails of empirical reality).

The History Channel is an excellent resource. They get all their info from experts. I also watch the Science Channel, nothing but experts there either. So you should tell those experts they are full of it and these channels should not be allowed on TV.

No the movie Jesus that the History Channel showed several times. It was quite a big deal.

I don't believe that boy went to Heaven I believe his preacher father put that stuff in his head. I DO NOT like the brain washing of children, I am appalled by it.

Jebus had himself crucified to put an end to crucifixion? Where the fuck people get this shit?

Fyi: crucifixion happens even today in reliogious countries like Iran.

(September 29, 2014 at 5:47 am)Rogue Wrote: I am [b]NOT[/b] trying to prove the existence of Jesus. I am going by what has been recorded in the bible.

That's hugely problematic: none of the biblical authors ever even met Jesus, so you're just going off of copies of copies of stories apparently recounted to anonymous authors... Just going via the bible gives you nothing solid to work off of at all.

Incidentally, why would you start by saying you're not trying to prove the existence of Jesus, and then end by asserting that certain things about him are "history"? For the latter to be true you'd have to do the former, unless you're more interested in skipping out on the burden of proof while keeping your assertions intact.

(September 26, 2014 at 2:23 pm)C4RM5 Wrote:

(September 26, 2014 at 2:10 pm)Rogue Wrote: Isaiah 1:13-14 states, “Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies…it is iniquity…Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.”

http://definingthenarrative.com/god-hates-religion/

There are many more...

God would prefer us to focus on living moral lifes according to his command, here he is saying he hates the type of false religion were people follow traditions and rituals and don't life lives pleasing to God.

No that is not what it says. I don't think you read the link. There are many more scriptures that reveals God's hate for religion. The church is exactly what Jesus taught against. Exactly. Have you heard the sermon on the mount? It's so obvious that every church in every nation disregards this simple lesson Jesus taught. Now look at what they've done to the name Jesus. Church/religion is such a dishonor to Jesus it's grotesque. It's like naming a bar after a child that was killed by a drunk driver. Jesus was killed by religion!!!

The church started by Peter he denied Jesus and Paul the murderer of Christians. Sounds like it was built on sand not solid ground.

Well Jesus did say he was not the prince of peace but that he would leave us confused. With over 4000 denominations this seems to be an accurate prophecy.

So if Jesus is not the way to peace what exactly is he? We NEED peace!!!

He also said he would not leave us comfortless but how can that be if we are confused and not comforted? The Christians I know are not comforted. I think it's because they believe in religion more than they believe in God/spirit.

Are we talking about god or Jesus? Are they the same? If they are the morals of god in the OT they are quite questionable.

Now Jesus said it was okay to get your ass out of a ditch on Sunday. That's not what the god of the OT commanded. Jesus was not angry, wrathful or vain. Why ask God to forgive the men hanging him if he was god?

Jesus gave 1 commandment and be dog-goned if they can't keep that 1 most important commandment. LOVE ONE ANOTHER. It is not loving to believe that god will send non-believers to hell. It's not even love to believe there is a hell other than this place, other than the things we do to each other.

It is not LOVE to long for the day Jesus comes to "terrorize" the non-believers. You should pray that day never comes. According to Jesus it won't until people stop looking. A thief in the night. It's a dramatically horrific story. Worse than any horror flick man has written. Fundy's long for it. I'm in the bible belt, NC, there is more Baptist here than any other, probably 10:1. Around here that's what people want; Armageddon.

I think it's because they are scared to die and they want to be saved from death. It's disturbing isn't it?

Well I'm glad Rogue has the true interpretation of what Jesus said, Drich and Frodo and Michael sure will be happy when they finally hear the truth!

Is Rogue stealing all of his ideas from Nietzsche's Anti-Christ?