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Abortion not allowed
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 (October 6, 2014 at 3:21 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I wanted to find out everyone's views on this. When he gets pregnant he can choose not to have an abortion. Until then, he can mind his own damned business about women controlling their own reproduction/bodies. Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni: "You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"  (October 7, 2014 at 11:39 am)Bad Wolf Wrote:(October 7, 2014 at 12:07 am)Jenny A Wrote: Ah, this is the argument where I get off the pro abortion bus. I'm not sure when that collection of cells becomes a person, only that it's pretty late and it has to do with brain development not cute pictures. But we give children special rights. We give them the right to housing, food, and education. We don't offer those as rights to grown-ups. Why? Because they can't be expected to do that for themselves until they reach maturity. For a fetus the use of mom's body is as necessary as anything can possibly be. The question is whether it's moral to require mom to provide that necessity. I say once mom has allowed the fetus to become developmentally a human, it is. Similarly if she delivers the fetus and takes the baby home, she is morally required to care for it. We would like society to take care of those in the hospital, but we don't assign that duty to anyone in particular and indeed it need not be done by anyone in particular.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
(October 7, 2014 at 3:10 pm)Jenny A Wrote:(October 7, 2014 at 11:39 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: I wouldn't call these 'special rights', we prevent them from dying by allowing these things. Just like how we look after people when they are sick in hospital, those aren't special rights, they are necessities. This. I'm not a supporter of late term abortions unless the child is unviable, is likely to have serious illness/brain damage or is a threat to the mother's life. I'm a proponent for the mother's right to abortion until the child is viable - 20 to 24 weeks Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni: "You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???" 
Let me put it this way, why should someone else suffer for the mistakes of others?
 (October 7, 2014 at 3:29 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: Let me put it this way, why should someone else suffer for the mistakes of others? Would you want to be raised by someone who didn't want you?
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
RE: Abortion not allowed
October 7, 2014 at 3:34 pm
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2014 at 3:39 pm by C4RM5.)
No, but I would want a chance at life.
Wait so what you are saying is you would rather be murdered than be raised by someone who didn't want you, that is sad. 
Bad Wolf
Compulsive procrastinator  Religious Views: Agnostic atheist, anti-theist, whovian, misanthrope? (October 7, 2014 at 2:42 pm)Chas Wrote: It's wrong because it's not even internally consistent and it does not parallel what you are trying to compare it to. You're just repeating yourself. How is it not internally consistent? (October 7, 2014 at 2:42 pm)Chas Wrote: All I'm hearing is a woman's right to bodily autonomy trumps everything, regardless. Trumps the right to life of the foetus. (October 7, 2014 at 2:42 pm)Chas Wrote: It's not that simple. I think it is.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House “Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom "If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech (October 7, 2014 at 3:29 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: Let me put it this way, why should someone else suffer for the mistakes of others? No one is suffering. A non viable potential life is being terminated. Why should a woman be forced to basically put her life on hold while she pays for her mistake or, worse, has that child forced upon her through rape or incest? Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni: "You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
Bad Wolf
Compulsive procrastinator Religious Views: Agnostic atheist, anti-theist, whovian, misanthrope? (October 7, 2014 at 3:10 pm)Jenny A Wrote: For a fetus the use of mom's body is as necessary as anything can possibly be. The question is whether it's moral to require mom to provide that necessity. I say once mom has allowed the fetus to become developmentally a human, it is. Similarly if she delivers the fetus and takes the baby home, she is morally required to care for it. Late term abortions are a little different. But abortions aren't the termination of a foetus, it's the termination of a pregnancy, most of the time resulting in the death of the foetus. But if it can be kept alive via an incubator, I think it should. The mother doesn't neccessarily get to decide if the foetus should live or die when there is a chance they can save it. (October 7, 2014 at 3:10 pm)Jenny A Wrote: We would like society to take care of those in the hospital, but we don't assign that duty to anyone in particular and indeed it need not be done by anyone in particular. To the extent that we assign anything to anyone we do assign people to treat the sick, doctors, nurses and surgeons are requried by law to do this. We asign fire fighters to put out fires and police officers to uphold the law. And what do you mean it need not be done? Medicine is vital to human survival and is the reason we are so successful.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House “Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom "If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech |
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