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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm
(This post was last modified: October 8, 2014 at 2:59 pm by robvalue.)
For someone all powerful and perfect, he sure is insecure, asking for all that ego massage. Sorry, demanding! (Free choice? See the video a couple of posts up)
Why would an all powerful being need worship? If I was all powerful, then I wouldn't need anything. All I would be interested in is eliminating suffering as much as possible, for starters anyway. And it would be no strings attached too. In fact, I'd offer everyone and everything their own personal universe where they could be and do anything they wanted and be happy forever, for as long as they wanted to exist.
So I guess I'm much less selfish than god.
And I wouldn't create atheists and then punish them.
Where do I send my CV?
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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 8, 2014 at 3:28 pm
(October 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm)robvalue Wrote: And I wouldn't create atheists and then punish them.
I would create atheists though, to spice things up a little...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 8, 2014 at 3:31 pm
(October 8, 2014 at 3:28 pm)Alex K Wrote: (October 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm)robvalue Wrote: And I wouldn't create atheists and then punish them.
I would create atheists though, to spice things up a little...
I'd think the more than 4,000 current religions with their thousands upon thousands of subdivisions would be enough...
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 8, 2014 at 3:37 pm
There are 4,000 active religions?
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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 8, 2014 at 3:44 pm
(This post was last modified: October 8, 2014 at 3:44 pm by Cyberman.)
I want to respond to orange's policeman analogy, but I'm not going to bother cut and pasting because it's a complete PITA on the mobile.
If I were faced with a copper holding clear evidence of my speeding and offering to forgive and forget if I'm nice to him, I'd tell him to piss off and do his worst. His proposal would be a perversion of justice and most likely, if proven, result in the case against me being thrown out. I'd also be suspicious that he might not have the evidence he claims, if he's chosen to go down the extortion route. It's not the job of the police to pass judgement and sentence; their rôle is to prevent crime and to investigate complaints. Basically, we wouldn't tolerate such unethical behaviour from our appointed law enforcement - why should we do so from imaginary one?
I recommend getting a better analogy.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 8, 2014 at 3:46 pm
(October 8, 2014 at 3:44 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I want to respond to orange's policeman analogy, but I'm not going to bother cut and pasting because it's a complete PITA on the mobile.
If I were faced with a copper holding clear evidence of my speeding and offering to forgive and forget if I'm nice to him, I'd tell him to piss off and do his worst. His proposal would be a perversion of justice and most likely, if proven, result in the case against me being thrown out. I'd also be suspicious that he might not have the evidence he claims, if he's chosen to go down the extortion route. It's not the job of the police to pass judgement and sentence; their rôle is to prevent crime and to investigate complaints. Basically, we wouldn't tolerate such unethical behaviour from our appointed law enforcement - why should we do so from imaginary one?
I recommend getting a better analogy.
Like a mafia boss holding a gun to your head and demanding protection money, who then shoots you if you can't/won't pay, then claims it was all your own free will choice to not pay and he's not at fault~
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 8, 2014 at 4:13 pm
(October 7, 2014 at 3:32 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: God gave us free will, we made the mistakes, if God made us love and obey him we would be mindless robots, instead he let us choose whether or not to obey him.
Nonsense. It isn't free will when the soul is held hostage.
You may as well argue that the armed robber is innocent, because his victim voluntarily surrendered his wallet.
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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 8, 2014 at 5:34 pm
(October 7, 2014 at 3:32 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: God gave us free will, we made the mistakes, if God made us love and obey him we would be mindless robots, instead he let us choose whether or not to obey him.
So there is no prophecy in the Bible then? You see if the future is knowable, even if only knowable by a omniscient being then free will is non existant and all you have is a illusion of free will. In fact I think the Bible support this interpretation because god consistently asks for questioning and punishes people that think for themselves, like the story of uzziah or eve.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 9, 2014 at 1:57 am
@ Chad32
Out of curiosity, do you take issue with God's infinite mercy, or just His infinite justice?
(October 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm)robvalue Wrote: For someone all powerful and perfect, he sure is insecure, asking for all that ego massage. Sorry, demanding! (Free choice? See the video a couple of posts up)
Why would an all powerful being need worship? If I was all powerful, then I wouldn't need anything. All I would be interested in is eliminating suffering as much as possible, for starters anyway. And it would be no strings attached too. In fact, I'd offer everyone and everything their own personal universe where they could be and do anything they wanted and be happy forever, for as long as they wanted to exist.
So I guess I'm much less selfish than god.
And I wouldn't create atheists and then punish them.
Where do I send my CV? To 'Build-A-god'. Their shop is located on the top floor of Ziggurat Mall.
(October 8, 2014 at 3:44 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I want to respond to orange's policeman analogy, but I'm not going to bother cut and pasting because it's a complete PITA on the mobile.
If I were faced with a copper holding clear evidence of my speeding and offering to forgive and forget if I'm nice to him, I'd tell him to piss off and do his worst. His proposal would be a perversion of justice and most likely, if proven, result in the case against me being thrown out. I'd also be suspicious that he might not have the evidence he claims, if he's chosen to go down the extortion route. It's not the job of the police to pass judgement and sentence; their rôle is to prevent crime and to investigate complaints. Basically, we wouldn't tolerate such unethical behaviour from our appointed law enforcement - why should we do so from imaginary one?
I recommend getting a better analogy. That's a lot to write on your mobile.
This is the conundrum I face in speaking with atheists. On the one hand, God's punishment is unfair, it's too much. On the other hand, not punishing is unfair, it's not enough.
Hey Goldilocks, let me know when your god's image is 'just right'. 
I do agree with you that the analogy is imperfect [we have separate individuals that write laws, enforce them, interpret them and pass sentence from them]. Perhaps instead of a policeman I should have written that: the monarch of the country you live in came to your door and said.....
(October 8, 2014 at 3:46 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Like a mafia boss holding a gun to your head and demanding protection money, who then shoots you if you can't/won't pay, then claims it was all your own free will choice to not pay and he's not at fault~ That's entirely non sequitur to the analogy. If interested, you can find your post being discussed HERE
start at page 24, post #239,240,260
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
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RE: Gods supposed perfection
October 9, 2014 at 2:51 am
Appeals to a monarchy aren't going to make it any better. Godamned king at my door..psh...I'd say go fuck yourself with your fancy hat. Murica!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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