(November 17, 2014 at 4:09 pm)Godschild Wrote: The fault of not understanding the trinity is yours not mine.

GC

The fault for failing to communicate the concept is indeed yours, GC. Take a little responsibility for a change, eh?

(November 17, 2014 at 3:03 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(November 17, 2014 at 3:01 pm)Godschild Wrote: All men die and only an omnipotent God can call us to life, saved because of His love for us.

GC

If men are saved because God loves us, what about the men that are sent to Hell, does God not love them?

How many more times are you going to ignore what has been stated, God loved the ones who will choose hell over heaven by the sacrifice of his Son for them. To give them the chance they ultimately have not or will not choose.

GC

(November 17, 2014 at 4:09 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(November 17, 2014 at 3:23 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: So for three days your god was dead? Not living? Not extant?

The fault of not understanding the trinity is yours not mine.

You wrote: "God did sacrifice His life [...]".

Was your god dead for three days? Did he actually "sacrifice his life"?

Answer the question.

Godschild Wrote:Like I said you need to study the scriptures and you would find out how far off you are from the truth.
God did create hell, first for Satan and the fallen angels, then when man (Adam) sinned, man with unforgiven sin will join them in the eternal punishment. The way of man seems right unto man, and the way of God seems wrong. There is a flaw in that kind of thinking, man has a fallible mind and God is omniscient.
Have you asked God to forgive you through Jesus Christ, no, then you really do not desire the forgiveness. When one understands the terribleness of sin against God one desires forgiveness of that sin and in honor of God's forgiveness one desires to worship Him, salvation is the beginning of a relationship. A truly loving God doesn't let people off the hook, He helps them to realize the consequences of their wrong actions, if they will listen.

The way of god doesn't SEEM wrong to us. It's empirically proven wrong. Slavery is wrong. Genocide is wrong. Blind, unquestioning obedience to authority is wrong.

The "terrible sin" you're talking about was us using free will. the whole point of freedom is the ability to do things other people don't like. Doing it without consequence, as long as they aren't hurting other people, is the definition of freedom. Freedom of speech is my freedom to say thing you don't like, meaning you don't get to kill me for heresy just because I don't buy into your beliefs.

Obviously your god never wanted us to disobey him. If so, he should have made us robots. Then we wouldn't have "sinned". If he wanted us to have free will, he should allow us to use it. If he thinks socity is going downhill because of it, the right thing to do is work out the problems to make society better. Not start killing people en masse.

Man has a fallible mind. We have no reason to believe that Yahweh's mind is infallible.

FAF ,the granting of forgiveness in our personal relationships always has some basis.
Think about it.
If someone violates you, do you offer that person blanket forgiveness without regard to their attitude and behavior?
Or is there a reason you forgive?

Now, we Christians are told to forgive without regard to the other person's stance because Christ forgave us-and paid for our missing the mark- that is our basis. And that basis is predicated upon our actively taking His pardon.

But I am not talking about us in the question I ask, this is about how people like yourself deal with offenses.
Is there not a basis for forgiveness?
It seem obvious there is.
So how can you expect God to extend blanket pardons when you will not do it?

Just to be clear on some of the issues. So that we're on the same page. I would like to hear some definition of trinity from our christian friends. I know what my catholic upbringing told me, but what about you?

(November 17, 2014 at 4:31 pm)professor Wrote: So how can you expect God to extend blanket pardons when you will not do it?

But Christians tell us over and over again that we are flawed and God is the perfect one, so why would we use our own limitations and apply them to god? Sure, I might not be able to extend unconditional forgiveness to someone that has wronged me, but couldn't God? He isn't bound by our mortal flaws, so I think he should be able to, don't you?

(November 17, 2014 at 3:01 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(November 17, 2014 at 12:40 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Remove the god and you remove the sin.

How do you remove the God that's eternal, one with no rival?

Very easily. I do it all the time. I'm doing it right now, in fact. 'Sin' is a brand name, which you are defining as a 'crime' against "God". I subscribe to no gods, certainly not yours, thus cannot be accused of 'sin'. That's not to say I'm immune to all the weaknesses and strengths, all the passions and the pain, intrinsic to the human animal. However I am no worse than most, better than some, just like everyone else. I have never intentionally hurt another person, especialy not for personal gain. My only 'crime' is not automatically believing your claims about mythology as real.

(November 17, 2014 at 3:01 pm)Godschild Wrote:

Quote:This god, were it to exist, must be a perfect idiot not to realise that the highest act of love towards its creation would be its own extinction, to eliminate the poison of its effect on the humans it professes to wish to save.

God did sacrifice His life so that everyone could be saved, however that salvation couldn't come without His resurrection.

And then popped right back up again like some hideous Whack-A-Mole, giving clergy throughout history the most potent weapon with which to control the great unwashed through fear of the dark.

(November 17, 2014 at 3:01 pm)Godschild Wrote: All men die and only an omnipotent God can call us to life, saved because of His love for us.

GC

And like I said, if this god truly existed and truly loved its creation, it would surely render itself nonexistent rather than continually poisoning that creation with its presence and fear thereof.

Put it this way. If I came to the realisation that my existence was causing the people around me to suffer and die, I would sooner die myself than be party to the continuation of that suffering. And since you're defining 'sin' as a 'crime' against your god, then fuck that god and the camel it rode in on.

(November 17, 2014 at 4:52 pm)Stimbo Wrote: And then popped right back up again like some hideous Whack-A-Mole, giving clergy throughout history the most potent weapon with which to control the great unwashed through fear of the dark.

Reminds me of some freakshow attraction of days gone by.

See the magnificent Jesus come back to life. Only five pennies to look at the empty grave.

And by the way, I still want our friends definition of their take on the trinity. That's a question, guys. If you're so versed in scripture, this should be an easy one.

(November 17, 2014 at 4:31 pm)professor Wrote: FAF ,the granting of forgiveness in our personal relationships always has some basis.
Think about it.
If someone violates you, do you offer that person blanket forgiveness without regard to their attitude and behavior?
Or is there a reason you forgive?

Holding a grudge is pointless. I'm fortunate enough not to be of a disposition that attaches to them, but I take no credit for it. I know it's hard for many people, and I'm a product of my genes and circumstance. Perhaps because I moved around a lot as a child I learned not to harbor ill-will indefinitely. Or maybe my memory is just that bad.