I can logically argue that God does not exist.

However, God being God, I cannot say with any high confidence that he does not exist in spite of the logic.

(November 19, 2014 at 8:14 am)Alex K Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 8:06 am)pocaracas Wrote: It's also a good thing our power sources are not trying to kill us!
Can you imagine if we had to use something radioactive? Or a huge super-dense and hot plasma ball that turns really huge and devours the whole planet when it's fuel source runs out?
Or if we had to use some substance that burns and leaves a mark on the whole planet? Or if that substance gets out of control and contaminates, say, an ocean?

The horror! I don't even want to imagine it!

Or heaven forbid, imagine you'd get fucking cancer just for staying outside in broad daylight too long... I know, a bit too far out, but as long as we're speculating...

Imagine if you'd get fat for eating too much?! Is that even possible, eating too much?!?!?
And imagine some of your organs would fail to produce the hormones required to break down the nutrients in the food, making you even fatter?!
And don't get me started on allergies... can you think of what it would be like if you'd die from a simple bee sting?!
Or have your air pathways blocked due to the presence of some simple dust particle?

It's a good thing this is all designed in such a way that these things never happen!

Now now people.
All these things occur because we 'fell'. Had we not 'fallen' none of that would happen.

Checkmate!

(Obviously we didn't evolve the genes necessary for these things to occur in a time span of 6000 years. The genes just "popped" into existence. Cause, you know..... no evolution.)

(November 19, 2014 at 9:00 am)Irrational Wrote: I can logically argue that God does not exist.

However, God being God, I cannot say with any high confidence that he does not exist in spite of the logic.

Um no. This is bad logic. It is merely splitting the baby out of some well intended but wrong headed sense of fairness and empathy.

We have tons of evidence that humans make up gods. We also know literally on a evolutionary and psychological level that human perceptions are notoriously flawed.

Science best data TO DATE, as it stands TO DATE, is running away from a god as any possible reality, and is also not a requirement to explain anything.

"We don't know" because we have not lived the future, does not mean we cling to the bad claims of the past. You are allowing the bad logic of "if ifs and butts were candy and nuts". That logic does not work, otherwise because we have not lived the future yet, the possibility of me farting a full sized Lamborghini out of my rear "might" happen because we have not lived the future yet.

The ability to string letters and or sound waves together, is only evidence that people make claims. It does not mean the claim is credible by default.

"Technically" and "semantically" means nothing. There are some claims simply not worthy of consideration. It is ok to throw bad claims in the trash and move on.

(November 19, 2014 at 9:24 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 9:00 am)Irrational Wrote: I can logically argue that God does not exist.

However, God being God, I cannot say with any high confidence that he does not exist in spite of the logic.

Um no. This is bad logic. It is merely splitting the baby out of some well intended but wrong headed sense of fairness and empathy.

We have tons of evidence that humans make up gods. We also know literally on a evolutionary and psychological level that human perceptions are notoriously flawed.

Science best data TO DATE, as it stands TO DATE, is running away from a god as any possible reality, and is also not a requirement to explain anything.

"We don't know" because we have not lived the future, does not mean we cling to the bad claims of the past. You are allowing the bad logic of "if ifs and butts were candy and nuts". That logic does not work, otherwise because we have not lived the future yet, the possibility of me farting a full sized Lamborghini out of my rear "might" happen because we have not lived the future yet.

The ability to string letters and or sound waves together, is only evidence that people make claims. It does not mean the claim is credible by default.

"Technically" and "semantically" means nothing. There are some claims simply not worthy of consideration. It is ok to throw bad claims in the trash and move on.

Humanity creates judo christian god reinforces said god exists for lengthy amount of time. The belief gets stuck anyone who sees through it dies or has any word against it dies. Keeping the faith the church holding the power over the people using fear tactics go forward to now its dying off because the church cannot reinforce the belief system through fear killing and having the answers.

(November 19, 2014 at 9:37 am)dyresand Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 9:24 am)Brian37 Wrote: Um no. This is bad logic. It is merely splitting the baby out of some well intended but wrong headed sense of fairness and empathy.

We have tons of evidence that humans make up gods. We also know literally on a evolutionary and psychological level that human perceptions are notoriously flawed.

Science best data TO DATE, as it stands TO DATE, is running away from a god as any possible reality, and is also not a requirement to explain anything.

"We don't know" because we have not lived the future, does not mean we cling to the bad claims of the past. You are allowing the bad logic of "if ifs and butts were candy and nuts". That logic does not work, otherwise because we have not lived the future yet, the possibility of me farting a full sized Lamborghini out of my rear "might" happen because we have not lived the future yet.

The ability to string letters and or sound waves together, is only evidence that people make claims. It does not mean the claim is credible by default.

"Technically" and "semantically" means nothing. There are some claims simply not worthy of consideration. It is ok to throw bad claims in the trash and move on.

Humanity creates judo christian god reinforces said god exists for lengthy amount of time. The belief gets stuck anyone who sees through it dies or has any word against it dies. Keeping the faith the church holding the power over the people using fear tactics go forward to now its dying off because the church cannot reinforce the belief system through fear killing and having the answers.

No no no no, this is not about one religion. It is about how humans can group and be successful while centered around very bad ideas. I can even show you Buddhism as an example of bad use of logic.

The truth of religion, even if one wants to claim it more naturalistic or atheistic, is still not objective, it still amounts to creating an artificial label to act as a placebo to set up social structures.


Lots of people for example falsely see Buddhism as peaceful. But that is a myth. Much of it stems from the oppression of Tibetan Buddhists. Whereas if you look at Burma dominated by Buddhism you see this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

And while people claim China is an "atheist" government, that is a myth too. It isn't against all religion, it is against competition to the state. It is full of Buddhists. So is Japan and they are not friends.

When you read "The God Delusion" by Dawkins, you learn what is really going on in human evolution. When you read "The New Atheism" by Victor Stenger, on top of that, it is clear that all our social clubs we call "religions" are really nothing more than gap filling that creates groups and social order. Humans do not like their patterns challenged and for the most part will react negatively to that challenge, even if done to find answers or help.

It is amazing that people can't see it.

People can't explain stuff... make up god.

People find out more stuff, people laugh at god and see it is made up.

People can't explain more stuff... make up god.

People find out more stuff, people laugh at god and see it is made up.

People can't explain more stuff... make up god.

And so on. In the future when sense finally prevails (if) people will look back at christianity, islam and everything else as just as silly as zeus and his mates. Incredible that people seem to think that this one's different! Except, like, there's more than one at once and huge numbers of versions even within each one. So erm yeah, good luck with that.

(November 19, 2014 at 10:14 am)robvalue Wrote: It is amazing that people can't see it.

People can't explain stuff... make up god.

People find out more stuff, people laugh at god and see it is made up.

People can't explain more stuff... make up god.

People find out more stuff, people laugh at god and see it is made up.

People can't explain more stuff... make up god.

And so on. In the future when sense finally prevails (if) people will look back at christianity, islam and everything else as just as silly as zeus and his mates. Incredible that people seem to think that this one's different! Except, like, there's more than one at once and huge numbers of versions even within each one. So erm yeah, good luck with that.

Judo christian god has been beaten and feared into humanity so badly its still trying to be around now but lies and mythologies only last for so long.

(November 19, 2014 at 10:14 am)robvalue Wrote: It is amazing that people can't see it.

People can't explain stuff... make up god.

People find out more stuff, people laugh at god and see it is made up.

People can't explain more stuff... make up god.

People find out more stuff, people laugh at god and see it is made up.

People can't explain more stuff... make up god.

And so on. In the future when sense finally prevails (if) people will look back at christianity, islam and everything else as just as silly as zeus and his mates. Incredible that people seem to think that this one's different! Except, like, there's more than one at once and huge numbers of versions even within each one. So erm yeah, good luck with that.

Well even atheists do not get a pass. I hate that the word is limited to god claims. It is possible for someone who hold's no god belief to have other woo or superstitions. I've run into atheists who think "all this" meaning the universe is a living thing. I have run into others who buy JFK conspiracies and others who think 9/11 was an inside job. I know others who claim Gene Roddenberry invented the modern cell phone.

"Atheist" merely means "off" on one claim. It says nothing about the individual's education level or critical thinking skills. It says nothing about other superstitions or woo they might hold. It says nothing about their political views or economic views.

I do hate that some atheists are starting "atheist churches". Sounds nice right now, how can a minority become abusive? Easy, think short term and forget that you are not a separate species, create a club, write down words as moral absolutes, POOF, what was a mere position suddenly becomes a dogma with political goals.

(November 19, 2014 at 10:24 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 10:14 am)robvalue Wrote: It is amazing that people can't see it.

People can't explain stuff... make up god.

People find out more stuff, people laugh at god and see it is made up.

People can't explain more stuff... make up god.

People find out more stuff, people laugh at god and see it is made up.

People can't explain more stuff... make up god.

And so on. In the future when sense finally prevails (if) people will look back at christianity, islam and everything else as just as silly as zeus and his mates. Incredible that people seem to think that this one's different! Except, like, there's more than one at once and huge numbers of versions even within each one. So erm yeah, good luck with that.

Well even atheists do not get a pass. I hate that the word is limited to god claims. It is possible for someone who hold's no god belief to have other woo or superstitions. I've run into atheists who think "all this" meaning the universe is a living thing. I have run into others who buy JFK conspiracies and others who think 9/11 was an inside job. I know others who claim Gene Roddenberry invented the modern cell phone.

"Atheist" merely means "off" on one claim. It says nothing about the individual's education level or critical thinking skills. It says nothing about other superstitions or woo they might hold. It says nothing about their political views or economic views.

I do hate that some atheists are starting "atheist churches". Sounds nice right now, how can a minority become abusive? Easy, think short term and forget that you are not a separate species, create a club, write down words as moral absolutes, POOF, what was a mere position suddenly becomes a dogma with political goals.

Even atheists have extremists sadly.. and the crazies.