Quote:Heavens = Sky

Earth = Ground

It's not that hard to figure out.

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heaven(single)=sky

earth=ground

universe=earth+heavens(plural)

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Quote:The Bible Fairy Tale (Genesis)
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven.
....
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

The Koran Fairy Tale
21:30 Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water ? Will they not then believe ?

1-dividing the waters from the waters has nothing to do with what i am saying and it has nothing to do with the seperation of the earth and the heavens
2-in genesis 1:20 the moving creatures is getting out(not created and its talking about dragons) from the water in the Quran it says that every living thing is created from water there is a big difference
plz read genesis from the begining so you can understand what kind of mistakes that is done if its written by someone it will help you understand later threads about scientific facts in the Quran

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(July 14, 2010 at 5:09 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(July 14, 2010 at 4:01 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: yeah there are a lot of muslim scholars says things from the Quran that is not discovered yet and scientists are still struggling about but they dont have the tools to prove it.

Such as?

you are attacking the things that is already discovered and proved right.do you think it will add anything to talk about things not discovered or proved yet?? lol

(July 15, 2010 at 4:11 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: f its written by someone it will help you understand later threads about scientific facts in the Quran

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(July 14, 2010 at 5:09 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(July 14, 2010 at 4:01 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: yeah there are a lot of muslim scholars says things from the Quran that is not discovered yet and scientists are still struggling about but they dont have the tools to prove it.

Such as?

you are attacking the things that is already discovered and proved right.do you think it will add anything to talk about things not discovered or proved yet?? lol

You are attacking his question..., and the Q'uran was partly a scientific book(partly) where they thought that studying the universe was a way to reach god, I've could have reached the same conclusions that we're written in the Q'uran about pregnancy, if opened various woman's open during pregnancy and observed(peaceful my ass), this isn't exactly rocket science, and the references to the moon and sun having cosmic orbits is referencing to the sun and moon having orbits around the earth(one is correct the other is wrong)

(July 15, 2010 at 4:11 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 1-dividing the waters from the waters has nothing to do with what i am saying and it has nothing to do with the seperation of the earth and the heavens
2-in genesis 1:20 the moving creatures is getting out(not created and its talking about dragons) from the water in the Quran it says that every living thing is created from water there is a big difference
plz read genesis from the begining so you can understand what kind of mistakes that is done if its written by someone it will help you understand later threads about scientific facts in the Quran

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Dividing waters from waters has everything to do with what you're saying since the ancient Hebrews believed that the universe was composed of water prior to the creation event. YHWH split the heavens and the earth in Genesis and does so again in the Koran.

Gen 1:20 is actually talking about fish and birds. Regardless, the theological background is created for the idea that living things were created out of the waters.

Oh, and btw, the earth is 5 billion years old. The universe ("heavens") is 13.5 billion years old. The two weren't "cleaved" apart. One was created long after the other was. This is not consistent with either the Biblical or Koranic verses.

Can you provide one example where some one has derived a scientific discovery or theory from the quaran?

Where some one has read a bit of your la la book and used it to uncover some fundemental principle of

the universe.

(July 15, 2010 at 8:22 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

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(July 15, 2010 at 4:11 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 1-dividing the waters from the waters has nothing to do with what i am saying and it has nothing to do with the seperation of the earth and the heavens
2-in genesis 1:20 the moving creatures is getting out(not created and its talking about dragons) from the water in the Quran it says that every living thing is created from water there is a big difference
plz read genesis from the begining so you can understand what kind of mistakes that is done if its written by someone it will help you understand later threads about scientific facts in the Quran

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Dividing waters from waters has everything to do with what you're saying since the ancient Hebrews believed that the universe was composed of water prior to the creation event. YHWH split the heavens and the earth in Genesis and does so again in the Koran.

Gen 1:20 is actually talking about fish and birds. Regardless, the theological background is created for the idea that living things were created out of the waters.

Oh, and btw, the earth is 5 billion years old. The universe ("heavens") is 13.5 billion years old. The two weren't "cleaved" apart. One was created long after the other was. This is not consistent with either the Biblical or Koranic verses.

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Hmm i thought the universe was older...

Quote:Dividing waters from waters has everything to do with what you're saying since the ancient Hebrews believed that the universe was composed of water prior to the creation event. YHWH split the heavens and the earth in Genesis and does so again in the Koran.

when you hear something and write it by yourself you make a lot of mistakes thats why you never hear anyone claiming that the bigbang was mentioned in the bible by reading genesis you can find mistakes in the creation that has no solution(that in case you really think that splitting waters is the same as what is mentioned in the Quran)

Quote:Gen 1:20 is actually talking about fish and birds. Regardless, the theological background is created for the idea that living things were created out of the waters.

it didnt say that in the arabic bible plz tell me what translation you are using

Quote:Oh, and btw, the earth is 5 billion years old. The universe ("heavens") is 13.5 billion years old. The two weren't "cleaved" apart. One was created long after the other was. This is not consistent with either the Biblical or Koranic verses.

i dont want to get in details about the bible because that is not our subject but there is things mentioned in genesis that says that the earth was created in the same time or in a very close time.according to the Quran there is nothing that says that they were made in the same time all we know is that they was created in six long periods and that the creation of the earth is 1\3 the time of the creation of heavens and the earth

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Quote:and the Q'uran was partly a scientific book(partly) where they thought that studying the universe was a way to reach god, I've could have reached the same conclusions that we're written in the Q'uran about pregnancy, if opened various woman's open during pregnancy and observed(peaceful my ass), this isn't exactly rocket science, and the references to the moon and sun having cosmic orbits is referencing to the sun and moon having orbits around the earth(one is correct the other is wrong)

you are replying on things i didnt mention so plz strict to the subject.but anyway what you claim is really wrong if you want me to explain open a new thread or send private message

(July 15, 2010 at 4:11 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

(July 14, 2010 at 5:09 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(July 14, 2010 at 4:01 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: yeah there are a lot of muslim scholars says things from the Quran that is not discovered yet and scientists are still struggling about but they dont have the tools to prove it.

Such as?

you are attacking the things that is already discovered and proved right.do you think it will add anything to talk about things not discovered or proved yet?? lol

Since when is asking for an example an attack on the premise? This mentality is typical for your deranged look on critical investigation, you don't know the diffrence between asking questions and questioning the premise.

You are making a claim here so it is you that have the burden of proof.

It should be noted also that it is completely irrelevant that muslim scholars lack tools to prove their claims when asked for the claims themselves. Just state their claims!. If you cannot state 'm unambiguously than what is your point?

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(July 15, 2010 at 4:11 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

Quote:Heavens = Sky

Earth = Ground

It's not that hard to figure out.

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heaven(single)=sky

earth=ground

universe=earth+heavens(plural)

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You left out hell to complete your three storey universe. Read your goddamn muslim bible.

It's way to vague to say it is descring the big bang. Before we discovered the big bang nobody would have said that the Quran is describing a big bang - you are just twisting the words to make it fit in with what we know in modern science.

You shitty book doesn't know anything. Your religion causes wars and violence all across the globe.

YOUR RELIGION (AND ALMOST ALL OTHERS) ARE EVIL LIES! (SOME ARE JUST LIES).

Quote:Since when is asking for an example an attack on the premise? This mentality is typical for your deranged look on critical investigation, you don't know the diffrence between asking questions and questioning the premise.

i didnt mean this i meant that when telling a scientific fact that is already discovered some of the members still attacking me without giving reasons or even say what their position is based on.imagine if i said something that is not discovered yet am not saying that asking a question is attacking

Quote:You are making a claim here so it is you that have the burden of proof.

i didnt ask anyone to proof what am saying.the burden of proof is on anyone who really want to know the truth.

Quote:It should be noted also that it is completely irrelevant that muslim scholars lack tools to prove their claims when asked for the claims themselves. Just state their claims!. If you cannot state 'm unambiguously than what is your point?

i just see that it will add nothing to talk about something that scientists dont even know wether this is correct or not.thats why i just mention the things that are supported by non muslim scientists as you will never assume the credibility of muslim scientists comment on the Quran verses

Quote:You left out hell to complete your three storey universe.

heaven means the sky its different than paradise

(July 18, 2010 at 6:55 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

Quote:Since when is asking for an example an attack on the premise? This mentality is typical for your deranged look on critical investigation, you don't know the diffrence between asking questions and questioning the premise.

i didnt mean this i meant that when telling a scientific fact that is already discovered some of the members still attacking me without giving reasons or even say what their position is based on.imagine if i said something that is not discovered yet am not saying that asking a question is attacking

You were simply asked to come up with an example of science in the quran in advance of science. Give it now or shut up about it forever.

(July 18, 2010 at 6:55 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

Quote:You are making a claim here so it is you that have the burden of proof.

i didnt ask anyone to proof what am saying.the burden of proof is on anyone who really want to know the truth.

Complete battering bullshit. Wanting to know the truth does not mean a burden of proof.

(July 18, 2010 at 6:55 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

Quote:It should be noted also that it is completely irrelevant that muslim scholars lack tools to prove their claims when asked for the claims themselves. Just state their claims!. If you cannot state 'm unambiguously than what is your point?

i just see that it will add nothing to talk about something that scientists dont even know wether this is correct or not.thats why i just mention the things that are supported by non muslim scientists as you will never assume the credibility of muslim scientists comment on the Quran verses

The specifics of your claims are needed BECAUSE they would potentially add this credibility you're after. Once again you have managed to get into the business of circular reasoning, you don't give the specifics of your claims because we wouldn't believe 'm and we don't believe 'm as long as you don't give 'm. This is all getting too deranged for me Mo.

(July 18, 2010 at 6:55 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

Quote:You left out hell to complete your three storey universe.

heaven means the sky its different than paradise

So someone not capable of one errorless sentence in english, such as yourself, makes a big argument based on a lacking "s"? In the sentence “He raised his eyes to heaven / the heavens.” both spellings mean the sky.