tl;dr: Godschild is okay with atrocities because they stop being atrocities when God does it.

(November 26, 2014 at 4:10 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: tl;dr: Godschild is okay with atrocities because they stop being atrocities when God does it.

That's a common theme among the religious.

They'll bend over backwards to justify the evils that their imaginary skyman did according to their little books of mythology.

I love reading when someone uses the evils from the bible but attributes them to human dictators and believers will say how evil these people are but will perform any form of mental gymnastics when they're actually told it's from the bible.

Yes, GC, I have read the bible multiple times. Here is the verse that you wanted about the tree.

This is from the second chapter in Genesis

16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

This is from the third chapter

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

(November 26, 2014 at 4:29 pm)Nope Wrote: Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

And since I was little I asked myself what god meant with "Us". Pluralis Majestatis maybe or some lend and lease from mount Olympus.

(November 26, 2014 at 2:49 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(November 26, 2014 at 11:26 am)KevinM1 Wrote: Moreover, it implies that god is weaker than sin, since their eating of the forbidden fruit is what caused sin to enter the garden to begin with. And, again, the implication is clear - knowledge is tantamount to sin, and something god cannot undo for some reason. He can create existence, but his plans are permanently mucked up by hairless apes. Amazing. And if that's the case, the garden is an incredibly flawed design for a perfect being. You'd think the all mighty (tee hee) would simply make the tree inaccessible. Put a moat of lava around it, or something.

Is there anything sky daddy can do right?

Why, because He loved Adam and Eve so much He gave them the right to choose. Would you have God to treat you as a mindless twit, by the way you reason it seems that would suit you fine. The only hairless ape are those who desire to be less than what God can make out of them.

GC

It seems to me, god preferred they stayed mindless twits.

(November 26, 2014 at 4:29 pm)Nope Wrote: Yes, GC, I have read the bible multiple times. Here is the verse that you wanted about the tree.

This is from the second chapter in Genesis

16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

This is from the third chapter

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

Do you know what each verse in full is saying.

GC

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(November 26, 2014 at 4:35 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 26, 2014 at 4:29 pm)Nope Wrote: Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

And since I was little I asked myself what god meant with "Us". Pluralis Majestatis maybe or some lend and lease from mount Olympus.

Why didn't you ask someone who had an answer?

GC

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(November 26, 2014 at 4:58 pm)KevinM1 Wrote:

(November 26, 2014 at 2:49 pm)Godschild Wrote:

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Why, because He loved Adam and Eve so much He gave them the right to choose. Would you have God to treat you as a mindless twit, by the way you reason it seems that would suit you fine. The only hairless ape are those who desire to be less than what God can make out of them.

GC

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It seems to me, god preferred they stayed mindless twits.

Your seems are not facts, care to show some. Sin makes people mindless twits.

GC

(November 26, 2014 at 2:49 pm)SkyDaddyschild Wrote: Why, because He loved Adam and Eve so much He gave them the right to choose. Would you have God to treat you as a mindless twit, by the way you reason it seems that would suit you fine. The only hairless ape are those who desire to be less than what God can make out of them.

SDC

When something is dangerous I don't give my children a choice. Have you ever heard of child proofing things. People do this because they love their children. Now if I was like your sky daddy I would make a poison lollipop and tell them not to eat it.

(November 26, 2014 at 5:18 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(November 26, 2014 at 4:58 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: It seems to me, god preferred they stayed mindless twits.

Your seems are not facts, care to show some. Sin makes people mindless twits.

GC

Well, Nope already provided some of the relevant lines. There are a few more:

Quote:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

They ate the fruit of the tree, their eyes were opened to reality, and god was angered/disappointed by this:

Quote:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Because they had gained knowledge, god cast them out. It's not just that they ate the fruit, but that they had gained the knowledge of life and death, good and evil. The implication of that is that, yes, god preferred that they not gain such knowledge. Otherwise, why make it forbidden? Why punish them for learning?

Again, it says this plainly, in black and white:

Quote:Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

Man had gained understanding. Had his eyes opened. And it angered god. The only reasonable conclusion is that god didn't want creations that dared disobey, dared gain knowledge that he and he alone (through circular reasoning) deemed unworthy for them to obtain. He wanted them to be sheltered children in perpetuity.

It also begs the question as to why god would create such a manipulative animal to live in his garden. Dumb move if you want your creations to live just so, without any desire to disobey.

And, just for yucks, there's nothing in Chapters 2 and 3 that describes Adam and Eve's free will as a loving gift from god. Interesting....

But, of course, all of this is a digression from the topic at hand - hell.

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(November 26, 2014 at 6:47 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(November 26, 2014 at 2:49 pm)SkyDaddyschild Wrote: Why, because He loved Adam and Eve so much He gave them the right to choose. Would you have God to treat you as a mindless twit, by the way you reason it seems that would suit you fine. The only hairless ape are those who desire to be less than what God can make out of them.

SDC

When something is dangerous I don't give my children a choice. Have you ever heard of child proofing things. People do this because they love their children. Now if I was like your sky daddy I would make a poison lollipop and tell them not to eat it.

I would think that, if you're a parent, you would actually encourage your children to learn. That's my biggest takeaway from the Adam and Eve story - man must suffer because he dared to learn about reality rather than just live blinded by god.

The fact is its stupid to get punished for something we had no control over such as adam and eve eating a fucking apple.
we shouldn't get punished because its like your kids did some fucked up stuff and you kicked them out the house years later
your kids and the ones you "love" have kids and you "love" them too but you fuck them up and it goes on to their next set of
kids you "love" and you fuck them up.

(November 26, 2014 at 8:18 pm)dyresand Wrote: The fact is its stupid to get punished for something we had no control over such as adam and eve eating a fucking apple.

GOD ALMIGHTY: "DON'T YOU BACK SASS ME, BOY. NOW LOWER YOUR PANTS AND GRAB YOUR ANKLES!"