(November 26, 2014 at 7:27 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(November 26, 2014 at 1:07 am)Surgenator Wrote: Please point out how "Obamacare is a disaster." I see it as a success.

P.S. Just because a law can be better does NOT mean it is a disaster.

More patients flocking to Emergency rooms for primary care treatment because of Obamacare.

The spike in emergency room patients is only temporary. People who recently got insurance and had lots of health problems flooded in. As you look at longer time frame, there is a noticible drop in emergency room patients.

Quote:Researchers found that patients who hadn't had medical care or any kind of health coverage before enrolling visited the emergency room at a rate of 600 visits per 1,000 enrollees in the first three months after becoming insured. By contrast, those who were already receiving care or had coverage — and therefore presumably had fewer unaddressed health concerns before enrolling — visited the emergency room at a rate in the low hundreds.

However, the study found the high usage dropped to 424 by the second quarter and 254 by the end of the first year, and then leveled off to a rate of 183 per 1,000 enrollees by the end of the second year. Kominski said these findings should be encouraging for states seeking to expand their Medicaid programs because they prove that fears are "completely unfounded" that the programs will bankrupt the state.

Source

(November 26, 2014 at 8:16 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(November 26, 2014 at 7:27 pm)Heywood Wrote: More patients flocking to Emergency rooms for primary care treatment because of Obamacare.

The spike in emergency room patients is only temporary. People who recently got insurance and had lots of health problems flooded in. As you look at longer time frame, there is a noticible drop in emergency room patients.

As these newly insured get absorbed into the primary care system I think you will see the total number of emergency room visits stay at an elevated level. Why? Because there hasn't been an increase in the number of primary care providers. This means some people who previously had insurance and who have had primary care doctors....who got to see those doctors in a timely manner......now won't get in to see them when they need to see them. Consequently their number of emergency room visits will spike as the newly insured numbers fall.

The reason Obamacare is an abysmal failure is because it doesn't provide health care. All it does is redistributes the existing healthcare while giving insurance company fat-cats a big government hand out.

(November 26, 2014 at 7:27 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(November 26, 2014 at 1:07 am)Surgenator Wrote: Please point out how "Obamacare is a disaster." I see it as a success.

P.S. Just because a law can be better does NOT mean it is a disaster.

More patients flocking to Emergency rooms for primary care treatment because of Obamacare.

Still not a disaster.

(November 26, 2014 at 8:35 pm)Heywood Wrote: As these newly insured get absorbed into the primary care system I think you will see the total number of emergency room visits stay at an elevated level. Why? Because there hasn't been an increase in the number of primary care providers. This means some people who previously had insurance and who have had primary care doctors....who got to see those doctors in a timely manner......now won't get in to see them when they need to see them. Consequently their number of emergency room visits will spike as the newly insured numbers fall.

So your complaint is that we can't produce doctors in less than 4 years to accomodate the increase in patients? Thats a good thing because becoming a doctor should take longer than 4 years. Becoming an experience nurse should also take longer than 4 years.

Quote:The reason Obamacare is an abysmal failure is because it doesn't provide health care. All it does is redistributes the existing healthcare while giving insurance company fat-cats a big government hand out.

Are you suggesting that Obamacare force people into the healthcare business? Because that is the only way government can "provide" the healthcare your asking for.

Finally, having more patients does NOT constitute as a disaster.

(November 26, 2014 at 10:11 pm)Surgenator Wrote: So your complaint is that we can't produce doctors in less than 4 years to accomodate the increase in patients? Thats a good thing because becoming a doctor should take longer than 4 years. Becoming an experience nurse should also take longer than 4 years.

Quote:The reason Obamacare is an abysmal failure is because it doesn't provide health care. All it does is redistributes the existing healthcare while giving insurance company fat-cats a big government hand out.

Are you suggesting that Obamacare force people into the healthcare business? Because that is the only way government can "provide" the healthcare your asking for.

Finally, having more patients does NOT constitute as a disaster.

Obamacare is a disaster because it did not increase the amount of healthcare and creates a situation whereby people do not have as much of an incentive to produce more healthcare.

For medicare and medicaid patients the government sets the price of medical care arbitrarily low so doctors won't want to take on these patients. The only doctors that will in significant numbers will be those that work for large practices. Your typical family doctor who is a sole practitioner is going to be a thing of the past.

Last, I believe our government could...if it set its mind to it...recruit and train up 100,000 doctors in 10 years.

Making healthcare affordable is simple. Flood the market with healthcare and prices will drop.

My health insurance premium for next year increases 19%.

I'm pissed.

(November 27, 2014 at 11:35 am)vorlon13 Wrote: My health insurance premium for next year increases 19%.

I'm pissed.

More money will be paid to deliver substantially the same amount of health care. This is why Obamacare is an utter disaster.

It didn't address the real problem.

(November 27, 2014 at 11:25 am)Heywood Wrote: Obamacare is a disaster because it did not increase the amount of healthcare and creates a situation whereby people do not have as much of an incentive to produce more healthcare.

Government cannot force people to go into a specific job field. Government, at most, can produced an incentive to go into a specific job field. I takes around 10 years to get trained to become doctors. Obamacare was implemented only 4 years ago. Your complaint is effectively, "why didn't obamacare made the incentive 6 years before he passed his law" or "why can't we train up doctors in 4 years." In either case, your complaint is childish.

(November 27, 2014 at 11:25 am)Heywood Wrote: Last, I believe our government could...if it set its mind to it...recruit and train up 100,000 doctors in 10 years.

First, I don't support the government mandating people to a specific job field. Second, colleges, universities, and hospitals already do a good job of training doctors. The fact there is a need for doctors (a well paid job + high social standing) is enough for people to choose to go into the field. Finally, you seem to realize it takes 10 years to make doctors while obamacare (the government incentive) has only been around 4 years.

(November 27, 2014 at 11:25 am)Heywood Wrote: Obamacare is a disaster because it did not increase the amount of healthcare and creates a situation whereby people do not have as much of an incentive to produce more healthcare.

So, is there just like a big valve in the white house labelled "healthcare" that Obama is personally keeping sealed shut, in your mind? Or should we acknowledge that "healthcare" as a thing comes as a result of people entering the field, which is something the government has very little control over?

Quote:For medicare and medicaid patients the government sets the price of medical care arbitrarily low so doctors won't want to take on these patients. The only doctors that will in significant numbers will be those that work for large practices. Your typical family doctor who is a sole practitioner is going to be a thing of the past.

... So? I don't subscribe to the same mindless traditionalism that you appear to; the "typical family doctor" isn't necessarily a good thing just because it was a thing in the past. Stop assuming your own goddamn conclusions and justify them.

Quote:Last, I believe our government could...if it set its mind to it...recruit and train up 100,000 doctors in 10 years.

And I assume they're just going to clone these doctors in big vats? They can't just force people into these jobs, and even if they just incentivised them you'd just sit there complaining about how unfair it is for Obama to focus so heavily on the medical field.

Besides, your "solution" here- if one could call it a solution rather than, say, a vague, lofty assertion based on nothing- is just one big bonus for you, isn't it? Even if they did exactly as you suggest, you get ten whole years to endlessly complain about how we don't have 100,000 doctors yet, before you shift the goalposts once we do!

Quote:Making healthcare affordable is simple. Flood the market with healthcare and prices will drop.

Yeah, Obama! Just turn the healthcare valve! Let some of that healthcare you're hoarding out for the common man! It's so simple!

(November 27, 2014 at 1:25 pm)Surgenator Wrote: Government cannot force people to go into a specific job field. Government, at most, can produced an incentive to go into a specific job field. I takes around 10 years to get trained to become doctors. Obamacare was implemented only 4 years ago. Your complaint is effectively, "why didn't obamacare made the incentive 6 years before he passed his law" or "why can't we train up doctors in 4 years." In either case, your complaint is childish.

First, I don't support the government mandating people to a specific job field. Second, colleges, universities, and hospitals already do a good job of training doctors. The fact there is a need for doctors (a well paid job + high social standing) is enough for people to choose to go into the field. Finally, you seem to realize it takes 10 years to make doctors while obamacare (the government incentive) has only been around 4 years.

The government can recruit and train up fighter pilots why can't recruit and train up doctors?

Obamacare should have never been passed. Instead a bill should have been passed that actually resulted in the production of Healthcare. Instead of spending billions of dollars on health insurance, the government should have spent billions of dollars building hospitals, and clinics to treat....and schools train healthcare providers.