(December 2, 2014 at 2:50 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(December 2, 2014 at 2:05 pm)abaris Wrote: But it's supposed to be a god handing out these laws. If he handed out different laws, by your own definition of faith, they would have fallen to their knees and kissed his ass.

As I said, I'm perfectly aware of the times and the cultures. But it's no mitigating factor for a supposed higher, timeless and omniscient being to hand out disgusting procedures. And the doubling down factor of the disgusting is the fact that christian leaders still cry at the top of their lungs for women to know their place. So, good job, little if anything learned in 3000 years.

It's your opinion that said procedures are disgusting. You act as if your position is the objectively provable correct one. It isn't.

It's better than what's in the bible. That's been the point all along. I am quite positive that in the future, people will look at us in the same way we look at people in the past. They won't really be any better than us, with their flaws, but they will likely be more enlightened.

This is a big case for the idea that morality is subjective. It is up to the opinions of different people and cultures. Right and wrong is better defined by objective means, liek the fact that you shouldn't treat people as lesser because of skin color or sexual organs.

(December 2, 2014 at 3:05 pm)abaris Wrote: No, you don't get to derail this one into another my moral prick is bigger than yours discussion.

I was asking you a specific question. Which is, why did god, omniscient, timeless and wise, leave specific instructions of how to perform rape instead of doing the decent thing?

And I'm noting that, unless you can objectively prove your positions to be true, then it's just your opinion that this constitutes rape and was indecent.

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(December 2, 2014 at 3:10 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It's better than what's in the bible.

Prove that this statement is anything more than your opinion.

Nope. It's definitely my opinion. You know why it's my opinion? Because I consider women my equal. Not sex toys or baby incubators.

Prove that my opinion is wrong. Do you think rape is ok now? Why would it be ok then? Because your god was powerless to actually solve the problem? All he could think of was trying to mitigate it a little?

(December 2, 2014 at 3:12 pm)alpha male Wrote: And I'm noting that, unless you can objectively prove your positions to be true, then it's just your opinion that this constitutes rape and was indecent.

Thanks for once again making a convincing point for christian values. Which is RAPE IS OK, IF GOD WILLS IT!

And now excuse me, cause I'm about to lose my lunch.

(December 2, 2014 at 3:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Nope. It's definitely my opinion. You know why it's my opinion?

Sure - you've picked up the prevailing opinions of your culture.

Quote:Prove that my opinion is wrong.

Why would you ask me to do that? I'm not pretending that morality is anything more than opinion.

Quote:Do you think rape is ok now? Why would it be ok then?

I'm not so arrogant as to proclaim arranged marriages, which have been common across time and cultures, to be rape just because my own culture doesn't practice it widely.

Why wouldn't you call it rape? If someone killed everyone in the village, except for a young virgin girl, then took her to his place and had a priest marry them, how would it not be rape? Or if someone rapes a woman, then the father marries them off, why are the future sex acts not considered rape? That doesn't make sense to me.

"That's just how it was" really doesn't sound like an excuse to me. I know you want to just brush it off as opinion, but if we both share this opinion why are you defending it?

BTW, you guys apparently aren't aware of this, but Jesus plainly taught that the law did not always reflect God's ideal on a subject, but rather included concessions to those it was given to:

Mark 10
2 The Pharisees came and asked Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” testing Him.

3 And He answered and said to them, “What did Moses command you?”

4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her.”

5 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Marching into a girl's country, killing her parents, and then taking her as your bride isn't an "arranged marriage."

So..it's our fault that the rules God gave us were so shitty? Because of the 'hardness of our hearts'?

So which is it? God giving the laws or the people making up their own?

And if they are human laws, which for all intents and purposes I believe, why are they in the OT? As gods laws.