I wonder if anyone has looked into the possible problem of the repel-effect in which a person who doesn't want to follow false teachings accidentally becomes contrary to many good teachings that are contained within the religious text of a religion. I mainly speak of Christianity because it is what I have most knowledge of but from what I've heard of some other religions I think this may be relevant to them also. Wisdom such as treating others the way you want to be treated are pretty obvious but there are many subtle bits of wisdom that are often forgotten if not frequently reviewed. Not only are these neglected by someone who discards the entire religious text but that person may also be subconsciously driven to rebel against almost everything in the book in order to distance themselves as far as they can from it. I can some up the problem with a quote my mother often said; "don't throw out the baby with the bath water".

Huh? You're mostly talking pseudoscience gobbledygook.

Sure there are a few good parts in the cesspool of hatred and violence that makes up the bible.

But why settle for that? Moderate Christians (and of other religions) do that, and they merely serve as a shield for those idiots who want to be literal in their interpretations.

Scrap it completely and base your morality off of rational thought and society and your morals will be so much better than the shit-stained gems you can get from the shit-pile of the bible.

Again, that subconsciously throwing out the good stuff sounds like Chopra-grade BS.

Also you're confusing it. There's no baby in the bathwater. It's more like a few pennies in a pile of shit. Why settle for that when you can make castle of fucking gold?

(December 6, 2014 at 4:11 am)boothj1985 Wrote: "don't throw out the baby with the bath water".

I can't think of one good thing the bible teaches us we can't get from secular sources, plenty of bad things though. The day I need to know how to get a slave, or who to sell my daughter to after she's been raped, I'll read the bible. Until then I'll happily throw the baby out with the bath water, or,as my mother often said "if you find a sweet in a pile of poo, do you eat it?"

(December 6, 2014 at 4:19 am)PerfectRecall17 Wrote: Huh? You're mostly talking pseudoscience gobbledygook.

Sure there are a few good parts in the cesspool of hatred and violence that makes up the bible.

But why settle for that? Moderate Christians (and of other religions) do that, and they merely serve as a shield for those idiots who want to be literal in their interpretations.

Scrap it completely and base your morality off of rational thought and society and your morals will be so much better than the shit-stained gems you can get from the shit-pile of the bible.

Again, that subconsciously throwing out the good stuff sounds like Chopra-grade BS.

Also you're confusing it. There's no baby in the bathwater. It's more like a few pennies in a pile of shit. Why settle for that when you can make castle of fucking gold?

I mean to do this only if you are very firm in your stance and will make clear that you don't accept the disprovable portions whenever you make mention of a good bit of wisdom. Also, you choose very aggressive words that refer to excrement which harbors many germs and is therefore to be avoided to prevent sickness. Why break that down so literally? Because your subconscious mind is likely drawn to things that actually have a negative or harmful slant/reference because you know that religion(the most highlighted parts at least) generally goes in the opposite direction.

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(December 6, 2014 at 4:34 am)jesus_wept Wrote:

(December 6, 2014 at 4:11 am)boothj1985 Wrote: "don't throw out the baby with the bath water".

I can't think of one good thing the bible teaches us we can't get from secular sources, plenty of bad things though. The day I need to know how to get a slave, or who to sell my daughter to after she's been raped, I'll read the bible. Until then I'll happily throw the baby out with the bath water, or,as my mother often said "if you find a sweet in a pile of poo, do you eat it?"

Either you're not being honest or you should read a lot more of the bible. But considering that the most popular verses tend to be about treating people with kindness and love, I have a hard time believing you've no knowledge of them.

Can you give me an example? See, the problem.is that "teachings" are per se not convincing without all the supernatural stuff unless they have merit on their own. In that case though, they simply become ideas. I think I'm always open to good ideas, but what do you imply - that atheists reject ideas simply because they appear in the context of some religion? I don't think that happens a lot. Or what is it you propose? That I read all religious texts to look for input? That's incredibly inefficient, I don't have time for that! But some atheists actually do that, like meditation techniques or whatever. I'm still unsure what kind of wisdom you hope to find, though...

(December 6, 2014 at 4:35 am)boothj1985 Wrote: Either you're not being honest or you should read a lot more of the bible. But considering that the most popular verses tend to be about treating people with kindness and love, I have a hard time believing you've no knowledge of them.

I think you completely misunderstood what I said.

Also, when you talk about treating people with kindness and love, does that include insulting them by calling them dishonest?

(December 6, 2014 at 4:42 am)jesus_wept Wrote: I think you completely misunderstood what I said.

Also, when you talk about treating people with kindness and love, does that include insulting them by calling them dishonest?

I said EITHER you're not being honest or... And even if I didn't offer an alternative, saying someone is not being honest is a lot more polite than calling them a liar or saying they are full of malarkey.

(December 6, 2014 at 4:48 am)boothj1985 Wrote:

(December 6, 2014 at 4:42 am)jesus_wept Wrote: I think you completely misunderstood what I said.

Also, when you talk about treating people with kindness and love, does that include insulting them by calling them dishonest?

I said EITHER you're not being honest or... And even if I didn't offer an alternative, saying someone is not being honest is a lot more polite than calling them a liar or saying they are full of malarkey.

Again, I think you completely misunderstood what I originally said.

(December 6, 2014 at 4:41 am)Alex K Wrote: Can you give me an example? See, the problem.is that "teachings" are per se not convincing without all the supernatural stuff unless they have merit on their own. In that case though, they simply become ideas. I think I'm always open to good ideas, but what do you imply - that atheists reject ideas simply because they appear in the context of some religion? I don't think that happens a lot. Or what is it you propose? That I read all religious texts to look for input? That's incredibly inefficient, I don't have time for that! But some atheists actually do that, like meditation techniques or whatever. I'm still unsure what kind of wisdom you hope to find, though...

The best verses in my opinion are very brief and shouldn't take up much of your time and yes the ideas are just that if you don't substitute the incentive of pleasing god with something else, like caring for other beings simply because they are alive like you. I don't think anyone intends to reject every bit of a religious text but they develop a chip on their shoulder over the years understandably as they are constantly bombarded with religious talk and judgmental attitudes.

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(December 6, 2014 at 4:52 am)jesus_wept Wrote:

(December 6, 2014 at 4:48 am)boothj1985 Wrote: I said EITHER you're not being honest or... And even if I didn't offer an alternative, saying someone is not being honest is a lot more polite than calling them a liar or saying they are full of malarkey.

Again, I think you completely misunderstood what I originally said.

I'm giving you enough credit to assume you(and most atheists) are smart enough to filter out anything that's not helpful. If I'm still not getting your original point, would you mind re-framing it so that I can get a clearer picture?

(December 6, 2014 at 4:54 am)boothj1985 Wrote:

(December 6, 2014 at 4:41 am)Alex K Wrote: Can you give me an example? See, the problem.is that "teachings" are per se not convincing without all the supernatural stuff unless they have merit on their own. In that case though, they simply become ideas. I think I'm always open to good ideas, but what do you imply - that atheists reject ideas simply because they appear in the context of some religion? I don't think that happens a lot. Or what is it you propose? That I read all religious texts to look for input? That's incredibly inefficient, I don't have time for that! But some atheists actually do that, like meditation techniques or whatever. I'm still unsure what kind of wisdom you hope to find, though...

The best verses in my opinion are very brief and shouldn't take up much of your time and yes the ideas are just that if you don't substitute the incentive of pleasing god with something else, like caring for other beings simply because they are alive like you. I don't think anyone intends to reject every bit of a religious text but they develop a chip on their shoulder over the years understandably as they are constantly bombarded with religious talk and judgmental attitudes.

Ok so you say there are a few short verses of good wisdom hidden in these tomes. Possible. You're not asking me to read all of it. I don't see any evidence that atheists reject them just *because* they also appear in a religious context.