(December 15, 2014 at 4:27 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(December 15, 2014 at 4:23 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: *Psssst! You spelled "Nazareth" wrong :p

It was the town of Narereth in Babylon, not the infamous Nazareth that the carpenter chappie came from . . .

(December 15, 2014 at 3:16 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I'm sorry, what? That isn't what this thread is about. This is about whether or not your precious Jesus was resurrected or not

(December 15, 2014 at 3:16 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: ("The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)", is your thread title, is it not?) The question is related to the number of people who believe THAT claim, versus those who do not - and that *is* in fact what you original question was.

(December 15, 2014 at 3:16 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: The question was related to the effectiveness of your argument. You claimed that it was successful. If it were, you ought to be able to point to at least one reader who was convinced. Yet, you can't.

(December 15, 2014 at 3:16 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: No, you presented evidence that a few people repeated the same claim. What you didn't do is present evidence that the claim was *in fact true*.

(December 15, 2014 at 3:16 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Do you even know what evidence is?

(December 15, 2014 at 3:16 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: You should, several people told you what would be required to prove that claim in that thread.

(December 15, 2014 at 3:16 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Your case is weak, kid.

(December 15, 2014 at 4:37 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: But there are over 2 billion people that are ALREADY convinced.

(December 15, 2014 at 4:19 pm)His_Majesty Wrote:

---

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: Just setting aside for the moment that the Gospels were written too late for any eyewitnesses to have had anything to do with them

No they wasn't.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: , they could possibly have involved eyewitnesses.

High possibility

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: Take Mary's virginity. Who besides Mary could possibly be sure of that, let alone witness it?

Suppose Mary told her own story?

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: Then there is the temptation of Jesus by the Devil. That was just Jesus and the Devil, there were no witnesses. What about the "take the cup away from me" dialogue with god? The disciples were asleep. Who were the witnesses?

According to Acts 1:3, Jesus appeared to the disciples over a period of 40 days, and during those 40 days they wasn't talking about football. He talked to them about the Kingdom and could have undoubtedly told him about praying to God while they were sleep.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: How about the thieves on the crosses? Who could have heard that conversation?

Um, Jesus and the thieves weren't the only ones present, Jenny...there were other people there, in fact, Luke 23:48 tells us just that.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: Jesus and the thieves all died.

Which is why the story could have been told by people that were there, and that would include Mary, as Luke 23:49 indicates.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: What about the women who found the empty tomb and told no one.

They told no one at FIRST. Eventually they spilled the beans.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: That, in case you didn't get it is one one. It's legend. It tells what no eyewitness would no because there was no eyewitness.

Nonsense. Jesus was an eyewitness, and as i'm sure you know the story, he appeared to the disciples...so he was his own eyewitness...and then you have the eyewitnesses of Mary and the other women and not to mention John...all of them were standing by the cross of Jesus.

But I wouldn't expect you to know shit like that, Jenny. You don't look in to this stuff without trying to find ways to attack...but that is ok...that's what I'm here for.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: There was a belief certainly. There was also a belief in a number of other gods and other impossible things. So? We tell legend from fact in part by how long it takes to show up in writing and how it is told.

Oh, is that the criteria?

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: The Gospels look like legend not fact by that standard. Or do you believe in Romulus and Remus. I don't.

What standard? How long it takes to show up in writing and how it is told? So you have some kind of authority to tell someone when they should write something?

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: No. It happened pre-revolution when George cut down the cherry tree. Mentioning time or even era does not make it the work of a historian. Historians evaluate sources and don't conclude all sources are equally valid. Herodotus the Greek ( 484–425 BC), perhaps the very first historian, recognized the difference between hearsay and fact and that some sources are better than others. History has never looked back (pun intended).

Ok, so please enlighten me on why don't you think the Biblical narratives are recording history?

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: I don't agree that there weren't people who probably would have written it down. But that doesn't matter. The point is that they didn't and so we don't have that evidence.

You don't know whether they did or they didn't, Jenny.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: Explaining why we don't have it isn't evidence that anything happened.

And explaining why we don't have it but SHOULD have it isn't evidence that it didn't happen.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: It does not make the thing itself more likely.

It doesn't make it more unlikely either.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: If people can't write, it doesn't make it anymore likely that they would have seen something they couldn't have written about. It doesn't make it less likely. It's irrelevant to whether the thing happened.

I completely agree...but if the people couldn't write, it should come as to no surprise as to why they didn't write things down...you are the one that keep bringing up this whole "they would have written it" thing up, not me. You are demanding a certain kind of evidence that seems improbable based on background knowledge.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: The events that are supposed to have caused all the talk and belief were supposed to have happened in Jerusalem. Yet it remained as you say, Jewish. Damning that.

Yeah but the bulk of the original converts were previously Jewish

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: BTW Good job lying about distance. Corinth is less than nine hundred miles from Jerusalem. By road it was about 1,200 miles. Exaggerate much?

How am I lying when I gave the link from which I got the information. Did you even look at the damn thing?

Below is a direct quote from the link...so if you have beef with that, take that up with them.

There are 816.33 mi between Korinthos and Jerusalem and there are 1,913.45 by road.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: And Paul traveled there from Jerusalem on foot according to your bible. So?

I don't know about the traveling on foot thing, but even if he did, so?

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: He established churches.

So?

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: How many Christians were there?

Were there where? In Corinth? Don't know.

(December 15, 2014 at 2:41 am)Jenny A Wrote: And why do distant churches prove anything about what happened in Jerusalem?

Because it shows just how far the belief spread and in what amount of time it spread it, duh.

---

(December 15, 2014 at 3:46 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: When you find a successful forum that operates as a democracy let me know. You signed up, you agree with our enforcement of the rules by default.

You don't like it? You know where the door is. This thread will be merged with the other one because basically they're the same thread. There was no convincing case presented or defended in part 1. And as such continuing with the delusion that there was is spam. And that's the end of the conversation.

(December 15, 2014 at 4:37 pm)His_Majesty Wrote:

(December 15, 2014 at 3:16 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I'm sorry, what? That isn't what this thread is about. This is about whether or not your precious Jesus was resurrected or not

He was.

(December 15, 2014 at 6:14 am)robvalue Wrote: My friend said something interesting, which I heard again on an atheist video.

If religion had anything to do with what is true, if it dealt with facts about reality, then over time you would expect some sort of consensus to be made. This is our experience with everything else that deals with facts and reality. There may be some disagreements, or areas where no one yet knows for sure and are making hypotheses, but those educated on the subject all converge rather than diverge about what is actually true.

However, religious "facts" couldn't be much more diverse. The fact that there's several different religions which are entirely contradictory is evidence enough, but even within the most popular religion, you have thousands of different opinions on the same issues.

So the most logical thing to conclude is that religion does not deal with facts and reality. There is no convergence, even when the only actual sources in reality (bible and such) have remained exactly the same for a long time. The very fact that believers are asked to accept things "on faith", that is, without evidence, shows that facts and reality are not involved. You can "have faith" in anything, anything at all. That in no way demonstrates that it is true.

Consider this. Say I could go back in time, and alter a passage in the bible. If you have faith that bible is true no matter what, you'd have to believe what I wrote in it. And I could write anything. So, unless you are using some filter to decide what is actually true and what isn't, you are literally prepared to believe anything.

(December 15, 2014 at 4:53 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: I have so much to say about this I can hardly contain myself.

(December 15, 2014 at 4:54 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Please try.

(December 15, 2014 at 4:55 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 15, 2014 at 4:54 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Please try.

No, don't.