You're describing a "group" which has no cohesive ideas besides the "I don't believe in god", and you're surprised that there are some assholes among the group? You could easily apply your complaints to blondes, Americans, Brits with cockney accents, or everyone with a shoe size greater than 10. Atheists are just people that don't believe in a god, that includes assholes, charity workers, murderers, activists, parents, and douchebags.

It's almost like atheists cover the spectrum from douchebag to good person because we have no defining doctrine or proscribing creed. Oh..wait..


If you're unhappy with the atheist communities that you've found online then guess what....you can go find more of them, there are plenty of them, and like we've pointed out there isn't a single one that is "the atheist movement"

(December 17, 2014 at 9:36 am)SoFarEast Wrote:

(December 17, 2014 at 9:00 am)Spooky Wrote: Are you sure you're not confusing atheism with Christianity? You've described many of the things I hate about religion. Lets face it, most single deity religions are pretty misogynistic. And for the record, one of my best friends is gay.

I think almost all religions are misogynistic. They reserve the rights of symbol making and history to men, and restrict women to the role of maintaining paternal lineages having no rights to public discourse.

With atheists movements (online or public) bullying women, and the leadership (if I may call it that) being entirely male, how is this movement any less of a misogynistic cult?

I still think you're using a gross polarization.

Can you expand on your statement that there is a "movement" of these asshole'ish atheists?

Look, you're either not for real or extremely naive. We've run through it all many times and still you're throwing out accusations at "atheists". It's time to get to a solid point with evidence I think.

Otherwise, all you're doing is slagging off atheists. Which is weird as you say you are one.

(December 17, 2014 at 9:37 am)Alex K Wrote: The "leading figures" being almost exclusively male is a problem, but does not automatically imply misogyny. I would contest the statement that "atheist movements" bully women. That doesn't even seem to make sense.

Ok. Atheists within these movements bully women. Does that sound more sensible?

And I'm not saying an all male leadership implies misogyny. I went to a few atheist conventions where the women speakers were not taken seriously, not a bit. Isn't this sexist?

(December 17, 2014 at 3:15 am)SoFarEast Wrote: Hello.

I've observed a growing trend in public interactions and online spaces in the way atheists behave. Bullying women, insulting gays, alienating anyone who doesn't subscribe to nerd culture. Is the lack of humanistic principles in Atheism leading to cult behavior? Or what else explains this?

It may not be a religion, but most atheists behave exactly like members of organized religion. Sorry if this has been brought up before. It's a worrying trend. A lot of late teen, early 20 atheists I've met won't think twice before using 'cunt' or 'faggot', or other such forms merciless insulting.

Hi. from the UK!

I'm afraid that your observations aren't held up by the statistics. As a group, those who claim 'no religion' are less likely to hold positions associated with social or minority oppression. Ergo atheists are less likely to be misogynists, racists, homophobes or bullies than religious people. They're also more likely to be pro-human/civil rights and recent evidence indicates that they may be more charitable than the religious.

You're right to suggest that certain groups of people, when gathered, can generate negative outcomes (Atheism+ is a great & pertinent example of this) however this is not due to their atheism but instead due to their shared values. For example, I find that atheist gun-nuts have far too much in common with right-wing assholes but that's got nothing to do with the atheism and everything to do with the shared values that lead them to gather together in support of guns.

So although your generalisation is wrong, you still have a point because others will & do make similar generalisations. I think that the best the 'atheist community' can do is publically oppose those negative outcomes whenever possible and publicise the positives about atheists as a group therefore reducing the number of people who might also make your generalisation.

Who?

There are no atheist leaders. If they do something stupid, that's on their head. I really don't get your point, you seem to be being very evasive.

(December 17, 2014 at 9:38 am)robvalue Wrote: If you are, you have some pretty skewed opinions based on very limited contact with atheists. Which is weird if you say you are an atheist.

I just happen to be a part of a deeply religious country, where coming out in the open is very difficult. I won't deny the misogyny of my fellow atheists here, is probably remnants of misogyny of our national culture, but I really hope when we turned that things would be different.

I hope that can explain my skewed opinion. As such a lot of people here look up to Dawkins and Harris, and I hoped they'd set a better example.

(December 17, 2014 at 9:45 am)SoFarEast Wrote:

(December 17, 2014 at 9:37 am)Alex K Wrote: The "leading figures" being almost exclusively male is a problem, but does not automatically imply misogyny. I would contest the statement that "atheist movements" bully women. That doesn't even seem to make sense.

Ok. Atheists within these movements bully women. Does that sound more sensible?

It sounds more sensible and in that generality it's proven to be true.

Quote:And I'm not saying an all male leadership implies misogyny.

Ok, your above posts are written a bit too crudely for me to tell that you don't mean those things

Quote: I went to a few atheist conventions where the women speakers were not taken seriously, bot a bit. Isn't this sexist?

Yes, that's in principle sexist. Which conferences were that and how did this fact (that they are not taken seriously) manifest itself?

I'm sorry, I've tried very hard, but I cannot understand what your point is.

I'm very sorry if your experience with atheists has been bad, but you need to take it up with those people in particular. We are not "a people" so our individual opinions on this is of no consequence.

(December 17, 2014 at 9:47 am)robvalue Wrote: There are no atheist leaders

Not formally. There are prominent and thus influential atheists, and those people are often called "leaders", though they often, like Harris, haven't even got any formal leadership role within atheist movements at all. These peoples' word does have a certain weight because they are well-respected and have high visibility, and they can use this in order to fight bigotry and bullying in the movements.