Prayer does fuck all, it has been scientifically studied. It works at the same rate at doing nothing.

It only "works" due to confirmation bias.

And remember, every time God "saves" someone from some disease or whatever, he's saving them from what he did to them in the first place.

Except, of course, that it's all bullshit. Put the praise where it deserves to be, and do the same with blame.

(December 23, 2014 at 11:39 pm)Godschild Wrote: Christians understand that God's not going to heal everyone and unbelievers don't care about God, so as I see it the writers only feeling sorry for himself, he needs to get over it.

We understand the limitations of doctors and that they may not be able to save everyone that they treat. But theists believe that god is not limited in such ways, and therefore if god does not answer a prayer it is not because he lacked the power, only the desire. To the atheist, the fact that god's record of success doesn't seem any different from chance is a reminder that things seem to work as if there isn't a god.

No, the author was dead on. Praising god for whatever implies that those who didn't receive whatever weren't good enough, or devout enough. Christians hide behind the old "God's plan" and/or "God works in mysterious ways" tripe, but it's bullshit. Especially when, as the author states, Christians use it to humble brag, which they do all the damn time. That's the kind of shit vultures like Osteen and the others spew.

(December 24, 2014 at 6:40 am)Tonus Wrote:

(December 23, 2014 at 11:39 pm)Godschild Wrote:

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Christians understand that God's not going to heal everyone and unbelievers don't care about God, so as I see it the writers only feeling sorry for himself, he needs to get over it.

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We understand the limitations of doctors and that they may not be able to save everyone that they treat. But theists believe that god is not limited in such ways, and therefore if god does not answer a prayer it is not because he lacked the power, only the desire. To the atheist, the fact that god's record of success doesn't seem any different from chance is a reminder that things seem to work as if there isn't a god.

Yes, true we do know God is not necessarily limited by power, we do know He is limited by who He is and His will, so at times things do not fit into His will and prayers will not be answered in the affirmative, and yes it can be tough on Christians, when the answer to their personal situation is no.
Yes again, however the study doesn't take into account of people unknown to them praying for people unknown to them. As far as the test, like I said I agree with their findings but, I as a Christian find them unreliable, why, because I know that God will not be tested by man. The reason I believe this, man is looking for physical proof of God before believing and the Bible says that's not the way it works, faith then personal proof, it's the way God wants it, sorry but I can't change God's will.

GC

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(December 24, 2014 at 9:38 am)KevinM1 Wrote: No, the author was dead on. Praising god for whatever implies that those who didn't receive whatever weren't good enough, or devout enough. Christians hide behind the old "God's plan" and/or "God works in mysterious ways" tripe, but it's bullshit. Especially when, as the author states, Christians use it to humble brag, which they do all the damn time. That's the kind of shit vultures like Osteen and the others spew.

Seems you're judging all Christians by a few, most Christians call bad apples. They present a problem for Christians who try their best to live by God's will, what can we do about them, not much other than to continue to speak out against their false teachings.

GC

Free will, GC, free will.

(December 24, 2014 at 2:02 am)Parkers Tan Wrote: God invented cancer.

The prosecution rests.

The prosecution has no evidence of it's statement, the statement will not be allowed until some real proof is presented.

GC

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(December 24, 2014 at 12:13 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Free will, GC, free will.

Please explain.

GC

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(December 24, 2014 at 2:38 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Why do you think a able bodied, healthy, wealthy, satisfied, happy person cannot have free will?

They do I've never said they did not.

Quote:Why do you feel suffering has to be there for the supposed "free-will"?

You have it backwards, suffering came through the misuse of free will ie. Adam and Eve and it's continued ever since by everyone.

Quote: Also who the f*** in their right mind would use free-will to choose suffering? If anything, letting people suffer is a violation of their free-will

I didn't say people would choose suffering because they have free will, though Christians do but that's for another debate. You are reading thing into what I said. How is what's now a part of our natural lives violating free will, suffering was brought about by the misuse of free will and therefore allowing it to run it's coarse is logical, stopping it is from grace.

GC

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(December 24, 2014 at 2:45 am)robvalue Wrote: Free will huh.

I give you the free will to die from hideous diseases I invent and to get destroyed by "natural disasters" I send at you.

God can give free will without fucking us in the ass at the same time. I'm afraid it's not a good argument.

It's truth, therefore there is no argument.

GC

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(December 24, 2014 at 3:35 am)Exian Wrote:

(December 24, 2014 at 12:36 am)Godschild Wrote: Free will kido, free will. Christians understand this, besides if God healed everyone all the time the world would be full of crazy people like....

No amount of free will is going to allow one doctor to zip around the world, Santa Claus style, saving every sick person. You don't thank a doctor because he/she chose to work on you and not some other person. You thank them for dedicating their life to helping people when ever possible.

I know this but in changing the "quote" as I did, wasn't about one doctor or one teacher, it was about any and/or all. I was trying to show thanking teachers and doctors would have the same result as thanking God if you take what the author of the quote said as truth. What he had to say was a punch at Christians because he doesn't like what we do, to bad for him, I'll continue to pray for all those I can.

GC

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(December 24, 2014 at 3:39 am)Parkers Tan Wrote: .... I see GC is shitting up yet another thread with his lowbrow ramblings. I'm still waiting for the little pissant to explain why Hell is just, but he's unable to do so. What a blowhard.

I have several times, it's not my fault you missed or ignored them.

Quote:The only reason I don't put him on ignore is that I'd lose many opportunities to mock his earnest stupidity and dullard tendencies.

Please do both of us a favor and do so, I'm tired of your childish ramblings. You like Min bring nothing to an argument but hate and we all can do without that.

GC

(December 24, 2014 at 12:13 pm)Godschild Wrote: The prosecution has no evidence of it's statement, the statement will not be allowed until some real proof is presented.

GC

That is ironic, considering there is no evidence to support your god's existence. Would your god not first have to be proven to exist before it can be proven that he created cancer?

Besides that, however, is it not already apparent that your god would have had to create cancer, since according to your silly beliefs he is the creator of everything?

(December 24, 2014 at 12:04 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(December 24, 2014 at 9:38 am)KevinM1 Wrote: No, the author was dead on. Praising god for whatever implies that those who didn't receive whatever weren't good enough, or devout enough. Christians hide behind the old "God's plan" and/or "God works in mysterious ways" tripe, but it's bullshit. Especially when, as the author states, Christians use it to humble brag, which they do all the damn time. That's the kind of shit vultures like Osteen and the others spew.

Seems you're judging all Christians by a few, most Christians call bad apples. They present a problem for Christians who try their best to live by God's will, what can we do about them, not much other than to continue to speak out against their false teachings.

GC

Funny how you focus on those Christians praising god for material possessions, but ignore those Christians who praise god for everything else.

Both are selfish. One's just more overt than the other.

(December 24, 2014 at 3:59 am)Losty Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='827459' dateline='1419379712']

There fixed that for you, all bold mine. You are seriously deluded by your own despite of Christianity.

GC

I'm limited on time today but, this is something I feel needs an answer, whether you accept it or not.

Losty Wrote:Seriously? People like doctors and teachers are only human. They can't save everyone. They're not all knowing nor are they all powerful. Your god is supposedly both.

I never said they were able to save everyone, my point in changing the "quote" was to show thanking doctors and teachers would result in the same feelings by others, if the writer of the "quote was correct, he wasn't. I know some may feel the way he described and I know that some have felt the same way he described when teachers and doctors were thanked. Now to we stop thanking everyone, of coarse not. We show our gratitude to God, doctors, teachers and all others who help.
Go back and read what I changed, you will see that I made mention of those who could and couldn't pay, how many people have been turned away from a doctors office because they couldn't afford to pay. The ones able to pay say thank you doctor for seeing me, what's those who were turned away to feel. Should the one who could afford to pay say, doctor I can't thank you because it will make those that were turned away feel bad. See what I was trying to say, we should be thankful and say so because it's the right thing to do, period. Life's not fair by any means, but it's what we have and when we have things to be grateful for we should thank those responsible, God, doctors or whoever.

Quote:I was at a Christmas party Saturday in the biggest house I've ever seen (and I've seen some pretty big houses), there were so many people and even more food. It was ridiculous.

I was in the heating and air business for years and have been in many multi-million dollar houses and I can understand the way you felt. But when a person is giving a feast for family and friends why is it ridiculous, as long as it was for the people and not to show off.

Quote:We stood in a circle while one man thanked god for blessing his family with so much food and so many nice things. Not because he was so glad to be blessed but because he was blessed with the ability to give so much to others. Well, it seemed really nice and that he helps people less fortunate than him is a nice gesture.

A gesture, are you saying he was trying to impress those there or that he could have done more?

Quote: I couldn't stop thinking that perhaps his god could have blessed him a little less and maybe blessed people whose children are slowly starving to death a little more.

Then you're saying God should not have worked through this man for others in need, do you realize we were created to help others, we are and it's up to use to answer the call of need.

Quote: If everyone has your god to thank for everything they have, then it's just that. Everyone has your god to thank for everything they have. Including children they cannot feed, cancer, aids, abusive spouses, nightmares from being a POW, a cheap tiny casket for their little one for every horrifying reason imaginable, etc. etc.

You're correct all should thank God for what they have, I do and many are way more blessed than I am from a material point. I do not see why I shouldn't thank God, do you think I shouldn't because others have more. Should I not thank God because I have more than others do, is gratitude an overrated thing for you, I don't believe so.
I've read about others who have thanked God for the illness a spouse had, why, because in the end it was going to make them both stronger, the man could see the results even before they were complete, that's having a relationship with God, was that part of your experience.
When dad was laying on his death bed I asked God to heal him if it was in His will and, in the same breath I asked if it wasn't that he would not let dad linger in suffering, God didn't heal him and He didn't let him suffer. I was thankful and told God so, do I wish I had him still, every day.
Thanking God for the toughest things in our lives is a thing for Christians, because we can understand why, it however doesn't mean we can't ask Him for help in our situations. Life's not fair and God is the first to tell us so, God doesn't bring all horrible things into our lives, most of those things are the result of the original sin, What most today say,"that's life." Many things we will never understand in this life, but maybe that could in itself be a blessing.

Quote:... when you say your Christmas prayers this year, be sure to throw in a thank you for the cancer that killed my friend Kelly at 25 years old this year

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. I'm sorry for your loss, I've lost a young life also and I know the pain, but I do not get mad at others because God guided me through a horrible time in my life. I'm thankful for His caring in my life and I miss my friend very much and I know God wasn't to blame for her death.

Quote: and the famine that starved so many children to death. Don't forget to thank him for fatal car accidents and for allowing so many people to lose their jobs. If you're going to give him thanks for all he has given then give him thanks for all of it not just the good stuff.

I pray for the people who get caught up in those terrible situations, I ask God to help them through and ease their pain and suffering, I do this almost daily, why, because God created me for this reason among other things. God did not cause these things to happen, it's life and we can hope that God will always help us through such things, but better yet we can pray for those who suffer these things, even if we are in one of those situations.

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(December 23, 2014 at 11:39 pm)Godschild Wrote: The reason I change the original quote was, to show that placing the doctor and teacher in for god would be just as damaging as the if the writer was correct which he wasn't. The whole thing doesn't make sense, for example the writer assumes or at least wants the reader to assume that all people hear everyone praying for others and that's ridiculous. Christians understand that God's not going to heal everyone and unbelievers don't care about God, so as I see it the writers only feeling sorry for himself, he needs to get over it.

GC

Fixed the underlined.

Quote:GC....you do realize that good faithful Christians are victims to tragedies even while they pray and heathen atheists live happy comfortable lives all the time...right?

I think that was made quite clear in what I said in answering your above statements.

Quote:Prayer doesn't change your odds.

That I do not agree with, the only explanation you get is this, personal experience. If that's not good enough for you I'm sorry but it's all I'm saying.

Quote:You change your own odds, those who help you change your odds, those who don't help you change your odds, where you live...so many things are factors in what will happen and what won't.

This is true in many ways but, I call it life, things happen good or bad.

Quote:Prayer isn't one of them. I've never seen it make a difference. Ever.

That's a shame because I have seen prayer make a big difference, even when the answer is no. Could it be the reason you left the church was because you did not allow God to answer your prayers, just a thought, no more no less. Thanks for the questions, I hope my answers make some kind of sense for you, they do for me or I would not have shared them. I probably will be away from my computer for a couple of days, if you do reply and want me to reply remind me if I forget to check, a PM will work, again thank you.

GC

(December 24, 2014 at 2:07 pm)KevinM1 Wrote:

(December 24, 2014 at 12:04 pm)Godschild Wrote: Seems you're judging all Christians by a few, most Christians call bad apples. They present a problem for Christians who try their best to live by God's will, what can we do about them, not much other than to continue to speak out against their false teachings.

GC

Funny how you focus on those Christians praising god for material possessions, but ignore those Christians who praise god for everything else.

Both are selfish. One's just more overt than the other.

i couldn't agree any better.