(December 27, 2014 at 1:50 am)Surgenator Wrote:

(December 27, 2014 at 1:36 am)psychoslice Wrote: Yea just call it what you want, because no matter what we call it, that isn't what is, its just that some people take words too serious, for me there just play things.

How do you know "that isn't what is?"

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(December 27, 2014 at 1:03 am)Drich Wrote:

Looks like you have a taker RRG. Good luck.

I honestly thought that little gif was blowing a kiss and I wondered why Drich was using it. A second look made me realize that it was making a come here gesture.

Drich, I thought for a moment you were coming on to the OP and had a WTF moment.

(December 28, 2014 at 5:08 pm)IATIA Wrote:

(December 28, 2014 at 3:41 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I have zero ideas which contradict science or logic, so that would be a non starter.

Any belief or idea of a god or gods defies science and logic.

In your mind, perhaps.

Please explain

(December 28, 2014 at 3:41 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(December 28, 2014 at 2:43 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote: fr0d0, I haven't read the previous posts, but here is something I wanted to add to the discussion:

Most theists have specific ideas about God, and atheists can show those specific ideas contradict science or contradict logic. For example, we have lots of knowledge that the Christian definition of God is false. Of course there are 40,000 denominations. It would be interesting to debate the specifics of your belief and see if it holds-up.

I have zero ideas which contradict science or logic, so that would be a non starter.

Do you believe that God affects anything? Does he answer prayers? Does he improve the character of Christians? Does he help find car keys?

Do you believe the Bible is inerrant? Do you believe your church's traditions are correct?

I'm sure there are lots of things you believe that contradict science or logic. Plus you ought to use critical thinking. Atheism is a much simpler explanation for reality than Christianity.

(December 28, 2014 at 7:24 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote: Do you believe that God affects anything? Does he answer prayers? Does he improve the character of Christians? Does he help find car keys?

Do you believe the Bible is inerrant? Do you believe your church's traditions are correct?

I'm sure there are lots of things you believe that contradict science or logic. Plus you ought to use critical thinking. Atheism is a much simpler explanation for reality than Christianity.

Science is a different subject, so it would be impossible to contradict it. It's pure logic so there shouldn't be contradiction there. If there is, we're doing it wrong.

God affects everything
He answers prayers
He works on the character of Christians just like non Christians
Asking God to find car keys could be anti God. That God wanted you to find them or not is his will.
I believe that the Bible is so far inerrant. I don't think it has to be inerrant. It was written by men inspired by God. There's a weak point in that chain.
I hate tradition. The church is bound to change to serve current needs.

How is the abstinance from belief in deity relevant to explaining reality prey tell? For explanation of reality as I understand you to mean it, personally, I use science.

(December 28, 2014 at 6:29 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(December 28, 2014 at 5:08 pm)IATIA Wrote: Any belief or idea of a god or gods defies science and logic.

In your mind, perhaps.

Please explain

If there were a god, it would have to be timeless.

If this god were timeless, then everything would have to be at once without causality.

If everything just is, then there is no need for a god.

If god was not timeless, it would have to have a first thought, ergo a beginning. What gave this god a beginning?

A god with limits is not a god.

A god without limits is an infinite god and that is impossible because nothing can be aware of an infinity, so this god could not be fully aware of itself.

This god would have to have infinite power, i.e., infinite energy. Again, impossible.

If this god were to exist in either form, then science, logic and reasoning become useless and invalid.

(December 28, 2014 at 7:24 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote:

(December 28, 2014 at 3:41 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I have zero ideas which contradict science or logic, so that would be a non starter.

Do you believe that God affects anything? Does he answer prayers? Does he improve the character of Christians? Does he help find car keys?

Do you believe the Bible is inerrant? Do you believe your church's traditions are correct?

I'm sure there are lots of things you believe that contradict science or logic. Plus you ought to use critical thinking. Atheism is a much simpler explanation for reality than Christianity.

(December 28, 2014 at 6:29 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(December 28, 2014 at 5:08 pm)IATIA Wrote: Any belief or idea of a god or gods defies science and logic.

In your mind, perhaps.

Please explain

Are we talking about Christianity or just the idea of god in general?
If we are talking about Christianity, the idea that Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine or came back to life and shot up into the sky in full view of his followers defies logic and science.. That is why Christians call those supposed events miracles, right?

So, it isn't true that you have zero beliefs that contradict science and logic.

(December 28, 2014 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: God affects everything

How? Evidence please.

(December 28, 2014 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: He answers prayers

Again, evidence please.

(December 28, 2014 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: He works on the character of Christians just like non Christians

Based on what, besides wanting to believe that?

(December 28, 2014 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Asking God to find car keys could be anti God. That God wanted you to find them or not is his will.

So basically one way or the other, it's his will because you claim so. Anything else to base that on than subjective belief?

(December 28, 2014 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I believe that the Bible is so far inerrant.

Inerrant based on what? There are countless continuity errors and contradictions. Also there are countless instances where science outright contradicts the bible.

(December 28, 2014 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I hate tradition. The church is bound to change to serve current needs.

About the only thing I can agree with.

(December 28, 2014 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: How is the abstinance from belief in deity relevant to explaining reality prey tell? For explanation of reality as I understand you to mean it, personally, I use science.

With the addition of a supernatural element. God is by definition supernatural, since his mere existence defies the natural laws. Also using a supernatural element whenever one doesn't understand something or science hasn't come up with an answer, is the usual god of the gaps theory. It basically say, oh, we don't know, must have been god.

(December 28, 2014 at 7:41 pm)IATIA Wrote:

(December 28, 2014 at 6:29 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: In your mind, perhaps.

Please explain

If there were a god, it would have to be timeless.

If this god were timeless, then everything would have to be at once without causality.

If everything just is, then there is no need for a god.

If god was not timeless, it would have to have a first thought, ergo a beginning. What gave this god a beginning?

A god with limits is not a god.

A god without limits is an infinite god and that is impossible because nothing can be aware of an infinity, so this god could not be fully aware of itself.

This god would have to have infinite power, i.e., infinite energy. Again, impossible.

If this god were to exist in either form, then science, logic and reasoning become useless and invalid.

That's a mess

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(December 28, 2014 at 7:42 pm)Nope Wrote:

(December 28, 2014 at 7:24 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote: Do you believe that God affects anything? Does he answer prayers? Does he improve the character of Christians? Does he help find car keys?

Do you believe the Bible is inerrant? Do you believe your church's traditions are correct?

I'm sure there are lots of things you believe that contradict science or logic. Plus you ought to use critical thinking. Atheism is a much simpler explanation for reality than Christianity.

(December 28, 2014 at 6:29 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: In your mind, perhaps.

Please explain

Are we talking about Christianity or just the idea of god in general?
If we are talking about Christianity, the idea that Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine or came back to life and shot up into the sky in full view of his followers defies logic and science.. That is why Christians call those supposed events miracles, right?

So, it isn't true that you have zero beliefs that contradict science and logic.

All that contradicts science is your interpretation. You're assuming my interpretation is the same as yours.

(December 28, 2014 at 8:12 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(December 28, 2014 at 7:41 pm)IATIA Wrote: If there were a god, it would have to be timeless.

If this god were timeless, then everything would have to be at once without causality.

If everything just is, then there is no need for a god.

If god was not timeless, it would have to have a first thought, ergo a beginning. What gave this god a beginning?

A god with limits is not a god.

A god without limits is an infinite god and that is impossible because nothing can be aware of an infinity, so this god could not be fully aware of itself.

This god would have to have infinite power, i.e., infinite energy. Again, impossible.

If this god were to exist in either form, then science, logic and reasoning become useless and invalid.

That's a mess

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(December 28, 2014 at 7:42 pm)Nope Wrote: Are we talking about Christianity or just the idea of god in general?
If we are talking about Christianity, the idea that Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine or came back to life and shot up into the sky in full view of his followers defies logic and science.. That is why Christians call those supposed events miracles, right?

So, it isn't true that you have zero beliefs that contradict science and logic.

All that contradicts science is your interpretation. You're assuming my interpretation is the same as yours.

Can you explain why you think that is a mess?

@ abaris

I was asked for my answers as to why those questions don't make the realm of science yet do make the realm of logic.

I believe in God. I have never said that you believe in God, so I don't expect you to have the same understanding.

God affects everything in my opinion because that is my belief. This understanding is from logic. If you've followed the conversation, you will already know that I've stated that there can be no evidence for this. So why are you asking for it?

With respect, I shall wait for doodles response, as I don't want to repeat myself. It would be rude to carry on without him, even though these might be his questions exactly. I'll wait for him to confirm that.