You make me sick
These deployed drones burned civilians in so many occasions enough to build a mass grave.

I really ask sometimes what's the difference between you and ISIS ?
Do you think some technology make you better ?

(January 3, 2015 at 8:43 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I wonder how many billions it cost us to kill each towel-head? The cost-effectiveness ratio must be shitty on this one.

If we had unrestricted Spectre flights.........I actually think that it would be pretty good - provided we classify anyone in front of it's guns as a terrorist by virtue of being in front of it's guns. Those things are meat grinders, fucking terrifying to be on the ground when they rip.

(January 3, 2015 at 9:44 pm)AtlasS Wrote: You make me sick
These deployed drones burned civilians in so many occasions enough to build a mass grave.

I really ask sometimes what's the difference between you and ISIS ?
Do you think some technology make you better ?

You know i i fell bad about it i never said it was a good thing. But the military is the military..

(January 3, 2015 at 9:44 pm)AtlasS Wrote: You make me sick
These deployed drones burned civilians in so many occasions enough to build a mass grave.

I really ask sometimes what's the difference between you and ISIS ?
Do you think some technology make you better ?

Not a fan of America's attitude to policing the world myself. But silly comparison is silly. The difference is the mission statement. murica wants to make its rich people richer and sees war as a means to that end. Isis wants to convert everyone in the world to Islam or failing that to kill us all.

Insofar as dropping bombs on anyone is justified, dropping them on ISIS is justified.

(January 4, 2015 at 6:08 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Not a fan of America's attitude to policing the world myself. But silly comparison is silly. The difference is the mission statement. murica wants to make its rich people richer and sees war as a means to that end. Isis wants to convert everyone in the world to Islam or failing that to kill us all.

Insofar as dropping bombs on anyone is justified, dropping them on ISIS is justified.

The first page of this thread looks and sounds like Fox News. I guess that's what he was taking issue with. And he's not alone in that.

Also, there's a problem with ISIS is out to kill us all. They killed a single digit number of Westerners so far, but thousands of muslims on their way to do so. They simply don't make headlines, they don't make for any news.

Of course they need to be stopped, but it would be a good thing, if brainpower came before muscle this time round.

(January 4, 2015 at 6:21 am)abaris Wrote:

(January 4, 2015 at 6:08 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Not a fan of America's attitude to policing the world myself. But silly comparison is silly. The difference is the mission statement. murica wants to make its rich people richer and sees war as a means to that end. Isis wants to convert everyone in the world to Islam or failing that to kill us all.

Insofar as dropping bombs on anyone is justified, dropping them on ISIS is justified.

The first page of this thread looks and sounds like Fox News. I guess that's what he was taking issue with. And he's not alone in that.

Also, there's a problem with ISIS is out to kill us all. They killed a single digit number of Westerners so far, but thousands of muslims on their way to do so. They simply don't make headlines, they don't make for any news.

Of course they need to be stopped, but it would be a good thing, if brainpower came before muscle this time round.

It was only a meme!

But if we're going to turn this into a serious thread, you make a good point. Isis may have killed less westerners than lightning, but they are making up for that with the numbers of other Muslims (and indeed just plain others) they have killed. At present the group is small and local and is thus only massacring local folk. But those lives matter as well! I think it's legit to try to stop them on that basis alone. When a fire starts in your neighbours house you don't wait for it to spread to yours before you put it out.

as to how, I'm all in favour of alternatives to force. Any suggestions?

(January 4, 2015 at 9:04 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: But if we're going to turn this into a serious thread, you make a good point. Isis may have killed less westerners than lightning, but they are making up for that with the numbers of other Muslims (and indeed just plain others) they have killed. At present the group is small and local and is thus only massacring local folk. But those lives matter as well! I think it's legit to try to stop them on that basis alone. When a fire starts in your neighbours house you don't wait for it to spread to yours before you put it out.

as to how, I'm all in favour of alternatives to force. Any suggestions?

You get no argument about this from me.

The point I was trying to make was, there's always this Western view of things. The kill a few journalists and it's instantly splashed all over the front pages. They kill tens of thousands of muslims or minorities living in the region, it barely makes page five, if that.

The media approach to the matter bears some bitter fruit. For one, there's this underlying feeling of they're out to get us, thereby throwing all muslims into the same jar, without giving a rat's about the fact, that the majority of victims are indeed muslims. And then there's the approach to fighting ISIS by bombing them, because you can't risk to send in ground troops. Bombing will result in even more innocent victims, thereby making part of the case for ISIS or other extremist groups.

That's what I meant by using brainpower before muscle. You can't hope that dropping a few bombs and letting the Kurds do the dirty work for you, is going to resolve the issue.

Why do muslims want to kill so many americans? Why not germany? England? Italy? They are all "christian" societies. The obvious reason is because we come over to THEIR land bomb the hell out of them kill their men, remove their political system and then leave them with a government that has no backing by other religious people in the area.

Now let's look what happened when Merica was bombed...Pearl Harbor. We nuked japan for doing it. It really pissed us off, just like 9-11.

If we just let the muslim countries fight each other and destroy their own infrastructure, the only thing we will loose is a supply of oil.

Oh wait...oil...nevermind, lets bomb the hell out of them so Halliburton can make more money for Cheney.

(January 4, 2015 at 9:16 am)abaris Wrote: That's what I meant by using brainpower before muscle. You can't hope that dropping a few bombs and letting the Kurds do the dirty work for you, is going to resolve the issue.

I think that you're overestimating the value of finesse in armed conflict. Overwhelming force is the best option available to anyone who has it. The only reason to entertain an alternative is if you find yourself lacking that option. No ones going to "think" ISIS away, rgr? They aren't interested in our thoughts or reasoned discourse or civil conflict resolution.

I'm reminded of a story.
3 wise men and a fool were walking in Africa. Suddenly a lion burst from the undergrowth and charged them. The first wise man estimated that the lion weighed 150kg and and was running at about 22 MPH. The second noted that it was an old beast, most likely driven from its pride by a younger male. The third noted that the lion was favoring his left front leg, most likely due to injury and concluded that it had only attacked humans out of desperation because it could not hunt game.

The fool just shot the lion before it reached them. But then, he didn't know any better.