If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

(August 9, 2010 at 7:21 am)rybak303 Wrote: If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

You really need help possum....

(August 9, 2010 at 7:21 am)rybak303 Wrote: If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

Very simple to answer.

Love is the same for us as it is for religious people. I.E Chemical reactions in the brain responding to stimuli.
The only difference is we don’t need to dress it up and pretend that the great invisible sky wizard did it.

You're joking right?

You are asking the wrong sort of question. What you really need to ask is why love supposedly has more meaning if it is from a "spiritual" or "non-material" realm. I don't think it does; why would it? Why does the source of love change the meaning of it?

Just because we might be able to understand what love is (i.e. chemical reactions) doesn't detract from the feeling we get when we encounter love. If anything, learning about how something works makes you appreciate things more. You all use the internet, and most of you probably have little to no understanding of how it works. Being a computer scientist, and an information security major at that, I understand how the internet works; it's intricate design and setup, the various protocols that go on behind the scenes, and the algorithms that try to keep your data safe online.

Trust me, understanding something doesn't make it meaningless; it gives it more meaning.

Well, the internet exists so isn't there some trancendental internet realm that helps move the data gnomes around when I click things with my mouse? wink nudge

(August 9, 2010 at 7:21 am)rybak303 Wrote: If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

All you're doing is making wild assertions based on religious and theological teachings which, as far as I can tell, have nothing to do with logic, reason or common sense. In your religious views you state that you are 'undecided'. If this is so then this must be some strange usage of the word 'undecided' that I have previously been unaware of!

I put it to you that you are in fact a deeply religious individual who thinks that he/she can 'out smart' us poor ignorant atheists with you deeply philosophical and morally superior knowledge. If that is the case then be prepared for a rough ride!

(August 9, 2010 at 11:09 am)Darwinian Wrote:

(August 9, 2010 at 7:21 am)rybak303 Wrote: If God does not exist, if there is no eternal spiritual realm beyond the temporal material realm where reason and emotion have their ultimate foundations what meaning does love have? In an atheist worldview where love has no spiritual/non-material foundations what is the difference between the love of a man for his wife and a couple of pigs mating? If love only exists in a material form and is just a series of reactions of chemicals in our brain than what is the difference between a parent's for their child and a junkie getting high?

All you're doing is making wild assertions based on religious and theological teachings which, as far as I can tell, have nothing to do with logic, reason or common sense. In your religious views you state that you are 'undecided'. If this is so then this must be some strange usage of the word 'undecided' that I have previously been unaware of!

I put it to you that you are in fact a deeply religious individual who thinks that he/she can 'out smart' us poor ignorant atheists with you deeply philosophical and morally superior knowledge. If that is the case then be prepared for a rough ride!

Yeah we kick ass!!

But to be serious, I am slightly offended that you belittle the love I have for my wife and children just because I think there is no spiritual realm.

My love for my family is deep and strong, your implication was that some fairy tale bollocks would somehow make it stronger, it could not.

(August 9, 2010 at 11:17 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: But to be serious, I am slightly offended that you belittle the love I have for my wife and children just because I think there is no spiritual realm.

My love for my family is deep and strong, your implication was that some fairy tale bollocks would somehow make it stronger, it could not.

Precisely why I didn't bother responding to his bullshit. I love my wife, my son, and countless others (including pets) immensely. I feel the emotion known as love so deeply that I can actually understand how the gullible and the ignorant can mistakenly believe in the soul.

It is nothing but trollish hyperbole to suggest that an 'atheist' is incapable of love.

You all are a bunch of cowards. This guy or gal comes in and asks legitimate questions, and what do we see? Oh big surprise, red reputation points, feigned offense, vulgarity and insults.

You have nothing and you know it. And this is what pisses me off the most about atheists is the cowardice they have of facing the real implications of their philosophy. If there is nothing but matter then love is nothing but matter and that makes it meaningless. It's not even two pigs mating; it's a sick joke.

Adrian says understanding this makes it better. What a load of garbage comparing it to computer technology. You sound like someone who's never lost a thing or loved a thing.

You all walk around like you have answers to the things that matter most to people and you have nothing postive only doubt and skepticism. Outcasts from the spiritual caste and nothing more; Isn't that right?

Here let the theist with the worst reputation set the record straight for you: If God is monistic in nature, which I believe He is, then love is a revelation of that unified nature. You feel like you are one with the other person, and in fact, you are. That's why Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself and to love your enemies. I don't think he really expected that to work, I think he wanted us to understand the monistic nature of God through our unity with one another. So, love does matter.

Love is like a computer network--Jesus, give me a break.