(February 6, 2015 at 6:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: In a mother’s womb were two babies. One asked the other: “Do you believe in life after delivery?” The other replied, “Why, of course. There has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later.”
“Nonsense” said the first. “There is no life after delivery. What kind of life would that be?”
The second said, “I don’t know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths. Maybe we will have other senses that we can’t understand now.”
The first replied, “That is absurd. Walking is impossible. And eating with our mouths? Ridiculous! The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need. But the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded.”
The second insisted, “Well I think there is something and maybe it’s different than it is here. Maybe we won’t need this physical cord anymore.”
The first replied, “Nonsense. And moreover if there is life, then why has no one has ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere.”
“Well, I don’t know,” said the second, “but certainly we will meet Mother and she will take care of us.”
The first replied “Mother? You actually believe in Mother? That’s laughable. If Mother exists then where is She now?”
The second said, “She is all around us. We are surrounded by her. We are of Her. It is in Her that we live. Without Her this world would not and could not exist.”
Said the first: “Well I don’t see Her, so it is only logical that She doesn’t exist.”
To which the second replied, “Sometimes, when you’re in silence and you focus and you really listen, you can perceive Her presence, and you can hear Her loving voice, calling down from above.”

But these are wild accusations, just like Religion is, the chance that someone could come up with the accurate version of the afterlife is 1 in a million, plus with all the plot holes (like the Bible), this story would be easier to believe

(February 8, 2015 at 5:56 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: So Lek, please do tell how you *know anything whatsoever* about anything outside out little scientific boxes? Anything at all...

Nobody "knows" anything. We think we know because we can experience it with our senses and others can experience it as well. It may be something totally other than what we have determined it to be, but we don't know that because our physical senses are limited. We do have the ability to reason about things and develop beliefs based on that reasoning. I have reasoned because of statments in my last post that something exists beyond the natural world - therefore the supernatural. I don't "know " this, but I believe it, and I live my life as if it is true. Also, because of what I stated in the last post, I believe that the universe was created from something supernatural. I have read the bible, which was written over a period of centuries by numerous authors, who carried on the story of a coming messiah who would save us from the evil world in which we exist. I know about no other religion that exists or has existed that the same amount of continuing revelation.

Lastly, I myself have always been interested as much in the "whys" as in the "hows". I firmly believe that there is reason for our existence and the existence of the cosmos. Science doesn't answer that question and leaves me deeply unsatisfied. I'm not content to believe that we are just born for no reason and die and that's it. I do care about the reason why we exist in this sometimes happy and sometimes happy world. One thing I "know" is that no one is always happy and content.

We can't verify what I know until we die. I sense God being with me, but I also can't prove that till later also. Based on my prior statements I believe that's reasonable, and that's what I'm going with. Just like you guys say - "we don't know now, but I'm confident that someday it will be proven." I do have one consolation that you don't have, though, and that is that you'll never be able to say "I told you so" if you're right, but I will. Otherwise we're all don't exist anymore, so who cares? There could be some great scientific discovery that could change my outlook, but I'm definitely not changing now.

I know that 1+1=2. I know that to be true. It isn't a belief, it's a fact. No supernatural needed.

Lek, science not having all the answers doens't justify poor philosophy and just making stuff up. Your belief that something outside of the universe must have caused it to exist is based on the cause and effect principle, which is based upon observation within and is dependent upon space-time. Your extrapolation that the principle must apply when space and time do not exist in order to justify a belief in a supernatural cause is illogical and unjustified.

And the first said, "I didn't believe in "him", either, but he keeps prodding me in the head!

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: MysticKnight's little presentation did a good job of demonstrating the close-mindedness of the the atheist mentality.

So we're close minded for not accepting a bunch of random assertions ("Maybe after this X!" is all the arguments in that example- and your own argumentation- are) instantly?

Well, Lek: Maybe atheism is true, and after death nothing will happen! What's that? You're not going to immediately accept an identical argument to the one in the parable? Oh, you're close minded! hock:

Or is it only close minded when people don't immediately agree with you?

Quote: All this even though they know that matter cannot be created from nothing,

So god is right out, then: creating things from nothing is kinda his thing, according to you.

Oh right, arguments only exist when they're being applied to positions you don't already agree with.

Quote: and if something was never created and always existed, it has qualities attributed to God.

My mother's name has an O in it, so she also has a quality in common with god. You wanna equivocate again and claim that my mother is god? Or are we just going to acknowledge that singular qualities of things are not sufficient to be that thing?

Quote: How can someone examine the origin of the universe or contemplate what exists beyond the edge of the universe and not reason out the existence of something beyond the natural world?

No evidence that the supernatural exists, beyond sophistic con games like the one you're playing here?

(February 7, 2015 at 11:00 am)JesusHChrist Wrote:

(February 7, 2015 at 5:53 am)Norman Humann Wrote: Does an atheist baby eat itself?

If there is no one around to cook an atheist baby, does it still get eaten?

What?!? We're not supposed to eat them raw?!?

Now you tell me!

Actual belief in an afterlife only matters if there is some ridiculous monstrous judging machine deciding who is and isn't worthy of particular after lifes based on his random criteria that he utterly failed to communicate to sane people.

Given any other circumstance, atheists get the same deal as everyone else.

And if there is some judge-athon, then christians have put all their money on one particular scenario, with one type of "God", assuming also that he isn't going to just change his mind, and that his message got through accurately (which it blatantly did not).

And worse than that, there is an infinite number of other possible judge maniacs that could be in charge. So you've picked one out of infinity chance of being right, based on a story book. So in reality, you have the same probability as atheists have of getting any given afterlife.

---

Closed minded does not mean refusing to accept any old drivel anyone tells you.

It means refusing to ever reconsider your position even when the huge problems with it are pointed out. You know, like theists.

(February 8, 2015 at 6:54 pm)Lek Wrote: I know about no other religion that exists or has existed that the same amount of continuing revelation.

Ah, this again.

That sounds like a you problem.

Revelation:

1. Making stuff up
2. Misinterpreting events due to lack of critical thinking skills