(February 11, 2015 at 11:06 am)Irrational Wrote: I have no idea if what you're saying here is true. How do you know that?

Because it was reported on by lots of different people. And here is the video where they pulled the fire alarm, you will recognise some of the same people from the previous video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWgslugtDow

(February 11, 2015 at 11:06 am)Irrational Wrote: Bullshit. She was pretty much trying to tell them what her views were exactly, and they just kept closing their ears to what she was saying. That guy with the beard kept yapping and was obviously not interested in hearing her perspective.

No just no. She wasn't interested in discussion, she wasn't interested in arguing or debate of any kind. She'd wrote a list and decided that the best way to communicate this to men, was to pull the fire alarm, getting them all outside and shout and scream and swear at them. If someone attempted to communicate with me the way she did, i wouldn't listen to them either. She didn't want to hear their perspective. And you can't hear anyone else talk throughout the video because she was screaming at the top of her lungs.

Would you be interested in hearing the perspective of a person who had completely disrupted your event and obviously doesn't care for freedom of speech?

Dyst: Sure. I know what you're saying. It may be that your control over whether you get raped or not is negligible. I have no idea really. But to me, it's not just teaching people not to get raped, but to avoid dangerous situations in general. Everyone should. For example, walking around in the dark alone is a bad idea.

As for the body language and such, yeah I really don't know how much difference this makes. Probably not as much as he is making out. I think he's trying to acknowledge that there are sickos out there and that you don't want to give them any more opportunity or encouragement than necessary. But maybe he was overplaying the important of some things.

I agree, a "how not to get raped" class would be ridiculous, but I didn't get the impression that was what he wanted. Maybe I missed that, my memory isn't so good.

(February 11, 2015 at 11:13 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(February 11, 2015 at 11:10 am)dyresand Wrote: More or less women who use the label feminist now are really using out of anger and hatred of men also for special pleading.

Uh...wow, no. I remember now why you were on my block list.

I should have worded that better... its the people who took that word and are doing stupid stuff with it in the case of radical feminists.

(February 11, 2015 at 11:20 am)robvalue Wrote: Dyst: Sure. I know what you're saying. It may be that your control over whether you get raped or not is negligible. I have no idea really. But to me, it's not just teaching people not to get raped, but to avoid dangerous situations in general. Everyone should. For example, walking around in the dark alone is a bad idea.

As for the body language and such, yeah I really don't know how much difference this makes. Probably not as much as he is making out. I think he's trying to acknowledge that there are sickos out there and that you don't want to give them any more opportunity or encouragement than necessary. But maybe he was overplaying the important of some things.

- Yes but - Most rapes are not like that and don't happen when you walk alone at night AND... Most women are already afraid to walk alone at night and avoid doing so, women are already taught to not accept drinks from strangers, to always catch a cab instead of coming alone at night, to not dress too short to avoid attracting attention. Sometimes this doesn't work. Walking alone is a bad idea but if I got robbed by someone I wouldn't like people to blame it on me, sometimes the only choice is to walk alone
Yeah there's some psychopathic rapists out there but they are a minority and work in a different way. Most rapists are not accused and may in the future be married and have kids. Psychopathic rapists are the lesser concern because they're far from being the rule.

To be fair, everyone can take self-defence classes and it's fine, the problem is when society is caring too much about teaching women defence instead of educating people to not rape others, which is attacking symptoms, not the cause. If you look at the west you see an example of how education and secularism makes rape decrease. It's all about education.

Sure. I didn't feel he was trying to blame the victims though, I don't think he was trying to say people are being stupid even, I think his problem was with the message that there is literally nothing you can do about it. I agree you may only be able to reduce the chances by a tiny amount, but it's better than nothing. It's true that anyone who has a head for basic safety isn't going to be doing the things he says anyway, so it's not really a rape specific issue. Maybe his advice is redundant for that reason. It's more like not being stupid and taking silly risks in general. It's hard for me to know, I don't know an awful lot of people, how they act, and what messages are being put out these days. So I don't have the data to judge.

I feel like he partially blamed by saying they can statistically reduce rapes - The problem is that for most rapists those techniques about body language don't work. Women who don't walk alone at night, who dress conservative clothes, who avoid talking to strangers and drink little alcohol are still abused, so in my opinion this idea is not a good one. Psychopathic rapists look for vulnerability like Tf00t said, but average rapists don't care much, they are opportunistic and seize the chance.

Why don't one of you guys link the video, watch it and see what he said? I mean you are discussing what may or may not have been said when the video isn't all that hard to find.

Yeah, I get what you mean. If someone is a mental sicko random rapist, there's not much you can do about that except basic safety precautions. And if it's someone you know and trust, then you're screwed anyway. I don't know if he has any data to back up what he is saying, I don't remember any. Maybe he got carried away with this video, being pissed off at what he considered to be OTT messages.

I've already watched it more than one time so I can remember pretty well Insanity I also watched a counter video from the1janitor that is a good counter for thunderf00t. Here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48j4itfxFSI

Fair enough, just read like you both weren't sure what was actually said.